Author: Robert Hyatt
Date: 13:19:44 05/18/04
Go up one level in this thread
On May 18, 2004 at 15:52:54, Frank Phillips wrote: >On May 18, 2004 at 15:12:27, Robert Hyatt wrote: > >>On May 18, 2004 at 14:53:36, Anthony Cozzie wrote: >> >>>On May 18, 2004 at 14:16:37, Robert Hyatt wrote: >>> >>>>On May 18, 2004 at 13:43:38, Omid David Tabibi wrote: >>>> >>>>>On May 18, 2004 at 13:28:43, Matthew Hull wrote: >>>>> >>>>>>On May 18, 2004 at 13:21:15, Omid David Tabibi wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>>On May 18, 2004 at 13:07:26, José Carlos wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>On May 18, 2004 at 12:58:33, Omid David Tabibi wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>On May 18, 2004 at 12:55:25, José Carlos wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>On May 18, 2004 at 09:16:34, Omid David Tabibi wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>On May 17, 2004 at 05:48:45, Richard Pijl wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>There are thousands of players at Biel, only a dozen at Wijk an Zee. So >>>>>>what ? >>>>>>>When was the last time Kasparov, Polgar, Anand played in Biel ? >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>There are also thousands of (well, at least more than a thousand) players >>>>>>at >>>>>>Wijk aan Zee. >>>>>>>>>>>>Besides the three grandmaster groups there are several other tournaments. >>>>>>>>>>>>See http://www.coruschess.com/ for more info on those (click >>>>>>information-general >>>>>>information). >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>In Linares there are usually about half a dozen players only. And it is >>>>>>usually >>>>>considered the most important tournament. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> No it isn't. The most important tournament has always been the world >>>>>>champs >>>>where players from all over the world and all levels can >>>>>>participate, in zonals, >>>>interzonals etc. If you are strong enough you can >>>>>>get to play the world champion >>>>if you pass the previous contests. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>And you must attend in person for the world championship; you don't play >>>>>>over >>>the internet... >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Yes, I'm not a program, just a person. But maybe someday someone will >>>>>>invent a >>way to connect directly my brain to a chess server so that I can run >>>>>>automated >>with a fixed protocol. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>That technology is already available, it is called PlayChess, Internet Chess >>>>>>>Club, FICS, etc. But it is not used in serious events, and surely not in world >>>>>>>championships. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>What makes playing a computer move manually more serious than the program >>>>>>playing automaticlly? >>>>> >>>>>What makes playing a human move physically more serious than playing it on an >>>>>internet interface? If nothing, then why isn't the world chess championship >>>>>played over the internet? >>>>> >>>> >>>>Your failure to answer is very revealing. >>>> >>>>First your answer is stupid. Computers don't need a human to move the pieces. >>>> >>>>Seconds, your answer is blind. The internet is coming to human events. >>>> >>>>Third, it shows the depth of ineptness at the ICGA. In 10 years they will >>>>_still_ be using manual play, 5 years after the WC for humans is done on the >>>>internet. Or at least all but the finals are done. >>>> >>>>I think it funny that the "International COMPUTER games association" is going to >>>>be the last to use computers to interface and manage the programs. That is >>>>simply incredibly funny. Even a local network and a local FICS server to >>>>eliminate all the human problems would be a _big_ first step. Can't be done? >>>>CCT did it. Maybe the name should be International Manual Computer Games >>>>association instead? >>>> >>>>Bows and arrows are history. >>>> >>>>But this is all apparently wasted discussion. Nothing there is going to change. >>>> >>>>I'll end with directing you to a physics book and "The law of entropy". It >>>>applies here. And things are _not_ getting better. The alternative is what is >>>>happening. Yearly... >>> >>> >>>I am definitely for in-person events. There is just a different feel to them >>>Automated, but in person. That way all the programmers just walk around and >>>chat rather than having to worry about getting back to the machine to make >>>moves. For me, 1 week and 1000$ expenses is doable (maybe not every year, but >>>some of the time at least I would go). 2 weeks and 2500$ expenses is just too >> >> >> >>I think even one week is too long. But if the event were automated, you could >>play 5 rounds per day and do a 3-day 15 round event. Humans can walk in or out >>as they choose, with all the work being automated... >> >>At the ACM events we actually had computer chess paper sessions, computer chess >>panel discussions, computer chess exhibitions (IE IM Mike Valvo playing a group >>of programs "blindfolded") etc. >> >>Ken Thompson and I wanted, for years, to have an automated play facility and we >>worked out how to do it (using serial ports) and could even demonstrate it, but >>the commercial entries fought it vigorously as too much work for just one event, >>too hard to do, myu dedicated hardware doesn't have a serial port, etc... >> >>1 week and $1000 is tough if it is an overseas trip. Probably double or triple >>that at least. The problem right now is that it costs that much _every_ year, >>which stifles not fosters computer chess participation... >> >>>much. >>> >>>anthony > > >I get the impression it is more to do with money and control than fostering >computer chess, other than through its indirect effect. > >Probably the internet, ICC and you have done more to foster computer chess in >modern times than ICGA. > >Even if the ICGA WCCC thingy has to be face-to-face, heavens only knows why it >is not automated using the free chess server (eg Lasker). Even better it could >even be done through ICC or FICS. The games would then be automatically relayed >to spectators. What is the real issue? > >Frank stubbornness is all I can guess... no reason to not do auto-interface even if everyone has to be present at one location...
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