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Subject: Re: List of participants for WCCC

Author: Robert Hyatt

Date: 13:19:44 05/18/04

Go up one level in this thread


On May 18, 2004 at 15:52:54, Frank Phillips wrote:

>On May 18, 2004 at 15:12:27, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>
>>On May 18, 2004 at 14:53:36, Anthony Cozzie wrote:
>>
>>>On May 18, 2004 at 14:16:37, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>>
>>>>On May 18, 2004 at 13:43:38, Omid David Tabibi wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On May 18, 2004 at 13:28:43, Matthew Hull wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>On May 18, 2004 at 13:21:15, Omid David Tabibi wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>On May 18, 2004 at 13:07:26, José Carlos wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>On May 18, 2004 at 12:58:33, Omid David Tabibi wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>On May 18, 2004 at 12:55:25, José Carlos wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>On May 18, 2004 at 09:16:34, Omid David Tabibi wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>On May 17, 2004 at 05:48:45, Richard Pijl wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>There are thousands of players at Biel, only a dozen at Wijk an Zee. So
>>>>>>what ? >>>>>>>When was the last time Kasparov, Polgar, Anand played in Biel ?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>There are also thousands of (well, at least more than a thousand) players
>>>>>>at >>>>>>Wijk aan Zee.
>>>>>>>>>>>>Besides the three grandmaster groups there are several other tournaments.
>>>>>>>>>>>>See http://www.coruschess.com/ for more info on those (click
>>>>>>information-general >>>>>>information).
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>In Linares there are usually about half a dozen players only. And it is
>>>>>>usually >>>>>considered the most important tournament.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>  No it isn't. The most important tournament has always been the world
>>>>>>champs >>>>where players from all over the world and all levels can
>>>>>>participate, in zonals, >>>>interzonals etc. If you are strong enough you can
>>>>>>get to play the world champion >>>>if you pass the previous contests.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>And you must attend in person for the world championship; you don't play
>>>>>>over >>>the internet...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>  Yes, I'm not a program, just a person. But maybe someday someone will
>>>>>>invent a >>way to connect directly my brain to a chess server so that I can run
>>>>>>automated >>with a fixed protocol.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>That technology is already available, it is called PlayChess, Internet Chess
>>>>>>>Club, FICS, etc. But it is not used in serious events, and surely not in world
>>>>>>>championships.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>What makes playing a computer move manually more serious than the program
>>>>>>playing automaticlly?
>>>>>
>>>>>What makes playing a human move physically more serious than playing it on an
>>>>>internet interface? If nothing, then why isn't the world chess championship
>>>>>played over the internet?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Your failure to answer is very revealing.
>>>>
>>>>First your answer is stupid.  Computers don't need a human to move the pieces.
>>>>
>>>>Seconds, your answer is blind.  The internet is coming to human events.
>>>>
>>>>Third, it shows the depth of ineptness at the ICGA.  In 10 years they will
>>>>_still_ be using manual play, 5 years after the WC for humans is done on the
>>>>internet.  Or at least all but the finals are done.
>>>>
>>>>I think it funny that the "International COMPUTER games association" is going to
>>>>be the last to use computers to interface and manage the programs.  That is
>>>>simply incredibly funny.  Even a local network and a local FICS server to
>>>>eliminate all the human problems would be a _big_ first step.  Can't be done?
>>>>CCT did it.  Maybe the name should be International Manual Computer Games
>>>>association instead?
>>>>
>>>>Bows and arrows are history.
>>>>
>>>>But this is all apparently wasted discussion.  Nothing there is going to change.
>>>>
>>>>I'll end with directing you to a physics book and "The law of entropy".  It
>>>>applies here.  And things are _not_ getting better.  The alternative is what is
>>>>happening.  Yearly...
>>>
>>>
>>>I am definitely for in-person events.  There is just a different feel to them
>>>Automated, but in person.  That way all the programmers just walk around and
>>>chat rather than having to worry about getting back to the machine to make
>>>moves.  For me, 1 week and 1000$ expenses is doable (maybe not every year, but
>>>some of the time at least I would go).  2 weeks and 2500$ expenses is just too
>>
>>
>>
>>I think even one week is too long.  But if the event were automated, you could
>>play 5 rounds per day and do a 3-day 15 round event.  Humans can walk in or out
>>as they choose, with all the work being automated...
>>
>>At the ACM events we actually had computer chess paper sessions, computer chess
>>panel discussions, computer chess exhibitions (IE IM Mike Valvo playing a group
>>of programs "blindfolded") etc.
>>
>>Ken Thompson and I wanted, for years, to have an automated play facility and we
>>worked out how to do it (using serial ports) and could even demonstrate it, but
>>the commercial entries fought it vigorously as too much work for just one event,
>>too hard to do, myu dedicated hardware doesn't have a serial port, etc...
>>
>>1 week and $1000 is tough if it is an overseas trip.  Probably double or triple
>>that at least.  The problem right now is that it costs that much _every_ year,
>>which stifles not fosters computer chess participation...
>>
>>>much.
>>>
>>>anthony
>
>
>I get the impression it is more to do with money and control than fostering
>computer chess, other than through its indirect effect.
>
>Probably the internet, ICC and you have done more to foster computer chess in
>modern times than ICGA.
>
>Even if the ICGA WCCC thingy has to be face-to-face, heavens only knows why it
>is not automated using the free chess server (eg Lasker).  Even better it could
>even be done through ICC or FICS.  The games would then be automatically relayed
>to spectators.  What is the real issue?
>
>Frank


stubbornness is all I can guess...

no reason to not do auto-interface even if everyone has to be present at one
location...




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