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Subject: Re: List of participants for WCCC

Author: Uri Blass

Date: 10:18:32 05/19/04

Go up one level in this thread


On May 19, 2004 at 12:49:57, Omid David Tabibi wrote:

>On May 19, 2004 at 12:32:44, Uri Blass wrote:
>
>>On May 19, 2004 at 12:19:05, Omid David Tabibi wrote:
>>
>>>On May 19, 2004 at 11:56:37, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>>
>>>>On May 19, 2004 at 03:38:52, Omid David Tabibi wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On May 18, 2004 at 13:56:25, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>On May 18, 2004 at 13:46:02, Omid David Tabibi wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>I hope that makes it clear why _I_ have not said much about playing this year.
>>>>>>>>Who knows _what_ rule(s) the ICCA will use this time around.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>I know. And I have told you many times.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>That is _really_ convincing.  You guys don't even want to produce a list of who
>>>>>>is playing???
>>>>>
>>>>>Check the WCCC page today.
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Last time I looked _you_ didn't speak for the ICCA any more than the organizers
>>>>>>of the WCCC I tried to enter a couple of years back spoke for it.
>>>>>
>>>>>I don't know when or where you looked, or what happened in Paris or Jakarta that
>>>>>you frequently mention. What I know is about WCCC 2004, and I am telling you in
>>>>>the clearest possible way what will be the case here.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>I'll run through this once more.  Slowly.
>>>>
>>>>In Jakarta, there was _no_ outside communication.  No game results.  No nothing.
>>>> Dead silence.
>>>>
>>>>In Paris, same deal.  No internet access.  No nothing.  I believe this was the
>>>>event where Thorsten was getting results out at his own expense via cell.
>>>>
>>>>Two of the first two WMCCC's I ever participated in.  While at every ACM and
>>>>WCCC event past 1980 we had outside world access.
>>>>
>>>>Then For one of the more recent events, and no, now I don't even remember which
>>>>because I no longer care, I made arrangements to get a pretty good box (8-way
>>>>from Dell) and when they finally worked out the details for me, I tried to enter
>>>>and was told "We have a new rule that says that a programmer _must_ attend."
>>>>Bruce Moreland went to this event and can confirm all of this as he and I talked
>>>>about it multiple times.  I then "undid" my machine arrangements, a bit
>>>>embarassing after having asked and having had some folks at Dell go out of the
>>>>way to help.  Later Bruce tells me that a commercial entry could not get the
>>>>programmer there and the ICCA decided to drop the rule.
>>>>
>>>>Doesn't that do wonders for my wanting to participate _again_??  Doesn't that
>>>>make me take what you say on behalf of the ICCA at something less than true face
>>>>value, since the rules get changed on a whim???
>>>>
>>>>That is my problem.  Later they _again_ modified this rule so that it became
>>>>possible to have a non-programmer operator, but at double the normal entry fee.
>>>>What is _that_ about?  This is an organization that wants to promote computer
>>>>chess or throttle it?  Is it all about the money going in to the ICCA?   Or is
>>>>it about the computer chess competition and interest in same?
>>>>
>>>>Looks _bad_ from my perspective.  And when the last CCT had what appears to be
>>>>over 5x the entries of the current WCCC event, and there is no cost, and there
>>>>are no changing entry rules, and so forth, what is the incentive to go to a WCCC
>>>>rather than the next CCT event?
>>>>
>>>>Hopefully you get my drift.
>>>>
>>>>I don't believe _any_ of this has put the ICCA in a particularly favorable
>>>>light.  I guess those of us that originally formed this organization can just
>>>>carry on feeling embarassed about how the tournaments have been handled the past
>>>>few years.  The journal is a good thing.  But the tournament (which was
>>>>originally the 'flagship' of the ICCA) has gone steadily downhill.
>>>>
>>>>How would _you_ react to such utter nonsense???
>>>>
>>>
>>>It seems that indeed some points where unclear in some of the previous WCCCs.
>>>But again, I am only responsible for the current WCCC. And I am doing my best to
>>>clarify the things as much as possible.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>At the CCT we manage to have an _open_ discussion about the rules _before_ the
>>>>>>event, and then we go by those rules.  The ICCA might try that at some point in
>>>>>>time, perhaps???
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I'd love to play remotely.  Once it becomes obvious that doing so is "OK".
>>>>>
>>>>>We don't provide operators here. But if you send someone to operate Crafty on
>>>>>your behalf, that is OK.
>>>>
>>>>I have a volunteer that would do well.  I'll investigate hardware one more time.
>>>> But I can guarantee you that if the rules change this time, it will be my
>>>>absolute last time to try this...
>>>
>>>If you send an operator here, there will be no problem.
>>
>>I hope that you can promise that if the rules change this time Falcon is not
>>going to participate.
>>I also hope that Amir can also promise that Junior is not going to participate
>>in that case.
>
>I verfied this issue once more just to be sure. A programmer can send an
>operator on his behalf (even though we'd love to see him in person). The only
>change is that if the programmer doesn't attend in person, the entry fee is
>doubled (from €25 to €50 for amateur).

I understand I do not remember that you mentioned doubling the entry fee but
considering the fact that it was mentioned today in this post and
the fact that I do not think that another €25 is a reason for Bob hyatt not to
participate I will not conider it as a change in the rules.

It can be good if you update the information in

http://www.cs.unimaas.nl/wccc2004/

I do not see there information that programmers who cannot attend in person need
to double their entry fee and send an operator.

>
>
>>
>>In case that you are sure that the rules are not going to change there is no
>>problem to promise it and it can be productive to convince other programmers to
>>participate by sending operators.
>
>We want to convince the programmers to participate themselves :) But in case
>that is not possible, then someone else can operate the program on their behalf.

I understand but it is possible that hyatt is not the only person who has
problems to participate not by operator.

Uri




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