Author: Uri Blass
Date: 10:18:32 05/19/04
Go up one level in this thread
On May 19, 2004 at 12:49:57, Omid David Tabibi wrote: >On May 19, 2004 at 12:32:44, Uri Blass wrote: > >>On May 19, 2004 at 12:19:05, Omid David Tabibi wrote: >> >>>On May 19, 2004 at 11:56:37, Robert Hyatt wrote: >>> >>>>On May 19, 2004 at 03:38:52, Omid David Tabibi wrote: >>>> >>>>>On May 18, 2004 at 13:56:25, Robert Hyatt wrote: >>>>> >>>>>>On May 18, 2004 at 13:46:02, Omid David Tabibi wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>I hope that makes it clear why _I_ have not said much about playing this year. >>>>>>>>Who knows _what_ rule(s) the ICCA will use this time around. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>I know. And I have told you many times. >>>>>> >>>>>>That is _really_ convincing. You guys don't even want to produce a list of who >>>>>>is playing??? >>>>> >>>>>Check the WCCC page today. >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>Last time I looked _you_ didn't speak for the ICCA any more than the organizers >>>>>>of the WCCC I tried to enter a couple of years back spoke for it. >>>>> >>>>>I don't know when or where you looked, or what happened in Paris or Jakarta that >>>>>you frequently mention. What I know is about WCCC 2004, and I am telling you in >>>>>the clearest possible way what will be the case here. >>>> >>>> >>>>I'll run through this once more. Slowly. >>>> >>>>In Jakarta, there was _no_ outside communication. No game results. No nothing. >>>> Dead silence. >>>> >>>>In Paris, same deal. No internet access. No nothing. I believe this was the >>>>event where Thorsten was getting results out at his own expense via cell. >>>> >>>>Two of the first two WMCCC's I ever participated in. While at every ACM and >>>>WCCC event past 1980 we had outside world access. >>>> >>>>Then For one of the more recent events, and no, now I don't even remember which >>>>because I no longer care, I made arrangements to get a pretty good box (8-way >>>>from Dell) and when they finally worked out the details for me, I tried to enter >>>>and was told "We have a new rule that says that a programmer _must_ attend." >>>>Bruce Moreland went to this event and can confirm all of this as he and I talked >>>>about it multiple times. I then "undid" my machine arrangements, a bit >>>>embarassing after having asked and having had some folks at Dell go out of the >>>>way to help. Later Bruce tells me that a commercial entry could not get the >>>>programmer there and the ICCA decided to drop the rule. >>>> >>>>Doesn't that do wonders for my wanting to participate _again_?? Doesn't that >>>>make me take what you say on behalf of the ICCA at something less than true face >>>>value, since the rules get changed on a whim??? >>>> >>>>That is my problem. Later they _again_ modified this rule so that it became >>>>possible to have a non-programmer operator, but at double the normal entry fee. >>>>What is _that_ about? This is an organization that wants to promote computer >>>>chess or throttle it? Is it all about the money going in to the ICCA? Or is >>>>it about the computer chess competition and interest in same? >>>> >>>>Looks _bad_ from my perspective. And when the last CCT had what appears to be >>>>over 5x the entries of the current WCCC event, and there is no cost, and there >>>>are no changing entry rules, and so forth, what is the incentive to go to a WCCC >>>>rather than the next CCT event? >>>> >>>>Hopefully you get my drift. >>>> >>>>I don't believe _any_ of this has put the ICCA in a particularly favorable >>>>light. I guess those of us that originally formed this organization can just >>>>carry on feeling embarassed about how the tournaments have been handled the past >>>>few years. The journal is a good thing. But the tournament (which was >>>>originally the 'flagship' of the ICCA) has gone steadily downhill. >>>> >>>>How would _you_ react to such utter nonsense??? >>>> >>> >>>It seems that indeed some points where unclear in some of the previous WCCCs. >>>But again, I am only responsible for the current WCCC. And I am doing my best to >>>clarify the things as much as possible. >>> >>> >>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>At the CCT we manage to have an _open_ discussion about the rules _before_ the >>>>>>event, and then we go by those rules. The ICCA might try that at some point in >>>>>>time, perhaps??? >>>>>> >>>>>>I'd love to play remotely. Once it becomes obvious that doing so is "OK". >>>>> >>>>>We don't provide operators here. But if you send someone to operate Crafty on >>>>>your behalf, that is OK. >>>> >>>>I have a volunteer that would do well. I'll investigate hardware one more time. >>>> But I can guarantee you that if the rules change this time, it will be my >>>>absolute last time to try this... >>> >>>If you send an operator here, there will be no problem. >> >>I hope that you can promise that if the rules change this time Falcon is not >>going to participate. >>I also hope that Amir can also promise that Junior is not going to participate >>in that case. > >I verfied this issue once more just to be sure. A programmer can send an >operator on his behalf (even though we'd love to see him in person). The only >change is that if the programmer doesn't attend in person, the entry fee is >doubled (from €25 to €50 for amateur). I understand I do not remember that you mentioned doubling the entry fee but considering the fact that it was mentioned today in this post and the fact that I do not think that another €25 is a reason for Bob hyatt not to participate I will not conider it as a change in the rules. It can be good if you update the information in http://www.cs.unimaas.nl/wccc2004/ I do not see there information that programmers who cannot attend in person need to double their entry fee and send an operator. > > >> >>In case that you are sure that the rules are not going to change there is no >>problem to promise it and it can be productive to convince other programmers to >>participate by sending operators. > >We want to convince the programmers to participate themselves :) But in case >that is not possible, then someone else can operate the program on their behalf. I understand but it is possible that hyatt is not the only person who has problems to participate not by operator. Uri
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