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Subject: Re: Hardware and WCCC limits?

Author: Robert Hyatt

Date: 15:14:00 05/19/04

Go up one level in this thread


On May 19, 2004 at 16:29:22, Omid David Tabibi wrote:

>On May 19, 2004 at 16:03:35, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>
>>On May 19, 2004 at 14:58:00, Richard Pijl wrote:
>>
>>>>>
>>>>>It is not about playing games.
>>>>>It is not about winning prizes.
>>>>>It is not about pleasing spectators
>>>>>
>>>>>It is about meeting the other participants.
>>>>
>>>>That is the idea behind a "conference".  It is possible to do a 2-3 day chess
>>>>conference, but play the actual games automatically either in parallel with the
>>>>conference or before/after...
>>>
>>>I do not object against automatic playing on e.g. a (local) ICS. I do object
>>>against remote participation. The author should be on-site. If not possible
>>>perhaps an operator could do, but that is certainly not preferred.
>>
>>It is simply not practical, so long as the tournament is _always_ held far from
>>North America.  So there is little point in arguing about the pros and cons.
>>But a simple question.  Go back to any period in time when one program was
>>clearly the best.  Take Belle in 1980.  Would you rather hold the event and not
>>have Belle participate, which clearly de-values the event, or do you let them
>>use an operator that is not a programmer to get the program in, period?
>>
>>The answer is pretty clear.  Yes, authors present is better than authors not
>>present.  But do you _really_ believe that authors present is better when very
>>few programs _or_ authors show up?
>>
>>Is a 10-participant WCCC _really_ a "WCCC" event???
>
>FYI, the deadline for registration is June 15th, and I know of a few additional
>people that will surely register.
>
>For a whole week everyone complained why the preliminary list is not published
>(read some of your posts with many capitalized words from yesterday) And now
>that it is published, you start attacking a "10-participant WCCC".....

I'm not attacking _anything_ here but the poor policies of the ICGA.

Why the secrecy with the participant list?  Because of the limited number?
Someone too lazy to create a web site and update it?

CCT's participant list was kept up-to-date on a web site, for comparison.

I expect a little openness.  I expect a set of rules that are actually followed
and not changed multiple times before the event is held.  I expect a TD to act
like a TD and not make idiotic decisions such as those in Graz.  IE I expect
something like we have in place for our CCT events.  Is that _really_ too much
to expect from _the_ computer chess organization???


>
>
>
>>
>>That's the problem here...  It is better to (a) get the programs there;  then
>>(b) worry about trying to get the authors there.  Else the term WCCC becomes
>>highly diluted.
>>
>>>
>>>>>It is about fair competition with minimized fraud possibilities. (hitting the
>>>>>'move-now' button or changing engine setting mid-game is easy when you can't
>>>>>been seen by your opponent)
>>>>
>>>>It is easy when you _can_ be seen.  It has happened many times in the past.
>>>>
>>>>Oh yes.  It would be harder to resign a won or drawn position because you think
>>>>that is the "right result" if things are automated.  No operator time penalties
>>>>for slow vs fast typing.  No time funny-business.  No forgetting to hit the
>>>>chess clock.  No move input errors.  Etc...
>>>
>>>Again, no objection against automatic playing. Especially for faster time
>>>controls it is probably a must.
>>
>>One has to ask "why haven't they already done this then?"  I have no answer.
>>There really is no answer that can be given.  Just say "we are going to run a
>>local FICS (or even better play on ICC where the world can watch) and you can
>>either show up with a program that works there or don't show up."
>>
>>
>>>
>>>>>I've participated in the last two CCT-tournaments. I also join in the grand-prix
>>>>>cycle on ICC. I think it is a nice way of organizing a tournament. But chat
>>>>>online is limited, and channel 64 is (during CCT) usually spammed by nitwits.
>>>>>I've also participated in 3 CSVN tournaments, 2 Dutch championships and one
>>>>>tournament in Paderborn, all requiring presence of the author/operator. I also
>>>>>visited (as a spectator) Maastricht 2002 twice, and Paderborn 2003. I had to
>>>>>skip Graz 2003 because of my daughters birthday that was during the tournament.
>>>>>If I have to chose between participating in an on-site tournament and an on-line
>>>>>tournament I'll choose the on-site tournament if my funds are sufficient.
>>>>
>>>>That is the point.  Suppose you discover it will cost $3000 US to attend.  Will
>>>>that change things?  It does for me...
>>>
>>>Of course. I just made a calculation that it would cost 700euro's minimum for me
>>>(that includes sharing a hotel room, cheap flight which is not very advisable
>>>with my posture, contribution by/to the organisation and pocket money to buy
>>>meals and drinks).
>>>
>>>>>There you'll have the possibility of really meet all the heroes of computer
>>>>>chess, drink a beer with them and have dinner with them. I don't see that
>>>>>happening in an online tournament.
>>>>
>>>>Looks like you won't see it happening much longer.  Last WCCC = 16.  This one
>>>>has 10 so far.  I can compute the slope of the linear function used to
>>>>approximate rate of change....
>>>>
>>>
>>>The move to give 500$ to cover part of the travelling costs is a step in the
>>>right direction. Now we need a less controversial location and a shorter
>>>tournament to reduce costs further.
>>
>>I would love to visit Israel at some time.  So the location is fine by me.  The
>>problem is that it is (a) a long trip;  (b) a costly trip;  and (c) the same
>>distance has to be traveled every year for me to attend.
>>
>>But regardless, the event is _way_ too long.  One easy solution is an automatic
>>interface and then you could play 30 rounds, 6 rounds per day, if that is what
>>they want.  Nobody gets tired.
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Richard.



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