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Subject: Re: Junior5 finds 11...h5

Author: Ralph E. Carter

Date: 07:51:07 12/24/98

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On December 24, 1998 at 10:29:38, Robert Hyatt wrote:

>On December 24, 1998 at 07:01:15, Ralph E. Carter wrote:
>
>>On December 24, 1998 at 01:15:13, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>
>>>On December 23, 1998 at 18:07:40, Ralph E. Carter wrote:
>>>
>>>>On December 23, 1998 at 10:17:10, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On December 23, 1998 at 01:31:12, Ralph E. Carter wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>On December 22, 1998 at 23:02:59, Steve Lopez wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>On December 22, 1998 at 20:09:45, Richard Heldmann wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Which PC program recommends ...h5?  Please post the answer.  I'd like to see
>>>>>>>>someone disprove Kasparov.  That should be simple enough, agreed?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>OK, Richard, glad to oblige. Junior5 (running as an analysis engine in
>>>>>>>ChessBase7 with 8 MB hash tables) finds 11...h5 as its preferred move in 7:50 on
>>>>>>>my Pentium II.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>The silence has been broken by the sound of Garry chomping crow (especially
>>>>>>>since he has stated a preference for Junior5, so I'm sure he can check it for
>>>>>>>himself).
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I am happy to hear about this!
>>>>>>I am sure you are pleased too.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>But the other side in this argument does not eat crow.
>>>>>>There will not be an end, or an admission.
>>>>>>They will find more positions to question.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>It is MOST ironic, and especially satisfying to ME, that JUNIOR is on THIS side
>>>>>>of the argument!!!
>>>>>
>>>>>It might be embarassing (in a way) to Junior's programmer however, since he is
>>>>>a Kasparov "supporter".  However, as you can see, Kasparov's credibility has to
>>>>>be near zero with most everyone now...  every time he makes a claim, or a
>>>>>blanket statement (no program can find this move...) he ends up looking like an
>>>>>idiot yet again...
>>>>
>>>>((That's what I meant by MOST ironic! My posts are often ridiculous, but Junior
>>>>5 speaks with an authority that is unlikely to be challenged in this case!))
>>>
>>>
>>>You obviously don't know Kasparov very well...  :)
>>>
>>
>>(((You disappoint me Dr. Hyatt. When I said "there will not be an admission",
>>and "THEY will find other moves to question", I had someone ELSE in mind.
>>
>>Once upon a time, there was a long, long thread in CCC. It was presumably a
>>search for truth, since it was conducted by two famous programmers in a public
>>forum. The following was posted, I paraphrase:
>>
>>"Under a multithreading operating system, with more than one process competing
>>for I/O, often the sequence of events suggested by the ordering of the output is
>>misleading. In this case, it cannot be used to conclude that one process ended
>>before another."
>>
>>I was hoping to hear the conclusion of this thread, it had been so long. The
>>reply was:
>>
>>"Yes, you are right. My argument was based on a false assumption. Thank you."
>>
>>No? There was no reply?
>>Maybe the thread was NOT a search for truth. My naivete humiliates me again.)))
>>
>>>facts mean little when he is talking about deep blue, it seems...
>
>
>sorry...  I was focusing on the comments made directly by Kasparov, which is
>where the remarks/comments originated.  We finally got to the bottom of the
>misunderstanding on the axb5 move... had nothing to do with multi-processing
>or anything else.  The output was perfectly normal.  A "word" in the output
>was changed by someone in the discussion "recovering vs reconstructing" and that
>led down a path that was not important at all.  Once that was caught and we
>explained what the "recover" meant, all mystery disappeared and the "conspiracy"
>went away on that move... it was perfectly obvious that DB did everything that
>the output said, and the output was quite clear in what was going on and why.
>
>This latest comment happened *way* after the match (as in a week or two ago)
>which is why I didn't consider any "others" in the conspiracy theory.  :)

Thank you for clearing this up. I like it when issues are resolved.



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