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Subject: Re: a question for programmers about the search depth

Author: Robert Hyatt

Date: 18:48:15 12/25/98

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On December 25, 1998 at 06:14:47, blass uri wrote:

>
>On December 24, 1998 at 19:03:00, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>
>>On December 24, 1998 at 11:02:09, blass uri wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>On December 24, 1998 at 10:52:40, blass uri wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>Suppose you do a brute force search to depth x then what is the longest lines
>>>>that you may search?
>>>
>>>I mean seeing everything for x plies when I say depth x.
>>>
>>>Uri
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>I understood that for Junior the longest line is at most 4x and  for crafty the
>>>>longest line is at most 2x.
>>>>
>>>>correct me if I am wrong
>>>>
>>>>What is the longest line for other engines
>>
>>first you have to have a common "depth" term.  The depth junior displays is
>>_not_ the same depth the rest of us display, so you can't compare that.
>
>I understand and this is the reason that I explained that I mean seeing
>everything for x plies(it should be almost everything because Junior cannot see
>underpromorions so it cannot be everything but in more than 99% of the cases the
>result is the same as the result when it considers everything).
>
>If Junior displays depth 2x then I say because of this reason that the depth is
>only x.
>
>>
>>But in the case of Crafty, the nominal depth of search has nothing to do with
>>the number of moves in the PV.  IE with a 10 ply search I can hit ply=50 at
>>times if the extensions get triggered just right.  Someone posted a position
>>months ago that was a mate in 30, that Crafty found with a fairly shallow
>>(10 plies or so) search, yet it went a full 60 plies deep.  This position was
>>one of the "rebel" positions where there was a contest to construct the deepest
>>mate with the fewest nodes...
>
>The question is what is the maximal plies that you can hit with a 10 ply search
>if you do not consider forced moves(only one legal move) and replies to forced
>moves.
>

My max ply limit is 60, period, although anyone can recompile this and
make it larger (it will slow things down a percent or so to do so).  But
with the check extensions, recapture extensions, pawn push extensions and
threat extensions, 60 plies can be hit with no trouble...



>>
>>But when you see 10 plies, you do know that the pv was searched to at least 10
>>plies, but could possibly have went to 50 plies (or more) along some variations.
>>Also you know that other non-PV moves may well have not even been searched to
>>10 plies thanks to the null-move...
>
>The question is what is the probability in practical games that you miss
>something important because of the null move.
>
>In other words suppose that you are not using null moves then what is the
>probabilty that you do a different move with a 10 ply search?
>
>Uri



fairly high in some positions, not at all in others.  It is just a form or
forward pruning...  and it affects the score and/or PV on many occasions...



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