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Subject: Re: ProbCut: An Effective Selective Extension of the Alpha-Beta Algorith

Author: martin fierz

Date: 13:15:21 07/22/04

Go up one level in this thread


On July 22, 2004 at 12:25:04, José Carlos wrote:

>On July 22, 2004 at 09:57:37, martin fierz wrote:
>
>>On July 22, 2004 at 08:24:32, Anthony Cozzie wrote:
>>
>>>On July 21, 2004 at 10:20:30, Albert Silver wrote:
>>>
>>>>Hi,
>>>>
>>>>This is probably old news to many, but I ran across the pages of Michael Buro
>>>>(http://www.cs.ualberta.ca/~mburo/), and saw an article on ProbCut, highly
>>>>recommending it, and even mentioning its inclusion in a version of Crafty 18.15.
>>>>
>>>>"ProbCut works in chess on top of null-move search! Download
>>>>mpc_crafty_18.15.tgz to play with it. We encourage all chess programmers to
>>>>experiment with ProbCut!"
>>>>
>>>>One can download the article "ProbCut: An Effective Selective Extension of the
>>>>Alpha-Beta Algorithm" on his page of publications
>>>>(http://www.cs.ualberta.ca/~mburo/publications.html) as well as a follow-up
>>>>article "A.X. Jiang and M. Buro, First Experimental Results of ProbCut Applied
>>>>to Chess", Proceedings of the Advances in Computer Games Conference 10, Graz
>>>>2003.
>>>>
>>>>For new programmers looking for material, this is certainly one, plus it might
>>>>be added to the links in the Computer Chess Resource Center.
>>>>
>>>>                                    Albert
>>>
>>>To me, ProbCut just seems wrong.  How can you throw out an 8 ply search based on
>>>a 4 ply search and expect to get things to work, unless your margin is just
>>>huge?  (Null move is obviously completely different here).
>>
>>i suppose this depends on the game. e.g. checkers is much more benign in terms
>>of evaluation - you can hardly misevaluate a position seriously if you simply
>>count material. if you have won a man, you win the game (there are some
>>exceptions of course...). => using probcut there makes a lot of sense.
>>for chess, i don't see why it shouldn't work at all. of course nullmove is
>>different, but both are methods to realize when you can stop wasting your time
>>on useless positions. i'd say probcut is much closer to the human way of
>>reasoning than nullmove. when i play a game of chess i stop searching at some
>>point and evaluate the position, because i think it's safe to do so. i never
>>think "now if the opponent could make two moves in a row....".
>
>  Actually, I think we do sort of null move. In a certain complicated position,
>I analyze a line, see I win material, then stop analyzing and ask myself "can my
>opponent threaten me anything?". Maybe he can push a passed pawn. I let him play
>again (assuming it's my turn in the final position) and do a quick search to
>verify he can't hurt me.
>  Not exactly a null move, but a similar idea.

hmm, perhaps... i don't usually think in impossible lines, which is why i
thought probcut would be closer to how i think. but i know what you mean, there
is an aspect of that too!

cheers
  martin


>  José C.
>
>
>>probcut will work on the majority of positions where one side has bludered
>>material. to get it working for the cases where one side sacced material for a
>>deadly attack is going to be the problem!
>>
>>cheers
>>  martin



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