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Subject: Re: SEE did not help me

Author: Stuart Cracraft

Date: 09:33:19 08/07/04

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On August 07, 2004 at 05:28:12, Andreas Guettinger wrote:

>On August 07, 2004 at 03:57:17, Michael Henderson wrote:
>
>>On August 07, 2004 at 03:52:23, Stuart Cracraft wrote:
>>
>>>On August 07, 2004 at 03:47:37, Stuart Cracraft wrote:
>>>
>>>>So here is an 8 ply search of the opening
>>>>position without SEE:
>>>>
>>>>Alpha=-250 Beta=250 Maxdepth=8 MaxTime=9999999
>>>> 1/ 2  e2e4  0.00   35       41 e2e4
>>>> 2/ 4  e2e4  0.00    0      149 e2e4 e7e5
>>>> 3/ 9  e2e4  0.01   17      450 e2e4 e7e5 f1c4
>>>> 4/14  e2e4  0.02    0     2283 e2e4 e7e5 f1c4 f8c5
>>>> 5/17  e2e4  0.06   17     7260 e2e4 e7e5 g1f3 b8c6 f1c4
>>>> 6/23  e2e4  0.40    0    46344 e2e4 e7e5 g1f3 b8c6 f1c4 f8c5
>>>> 7/26  e2e4  1.08   17   119943 e2e4 e7e5 g1f3 b8c6 f1c4 g8f6 b1c3
>>>> 8/31  e2e4  6.11    0   699160 e2e4 e7e5 g1f3 b8c6 f1c4 g8f6 b1c3 f8c5
>>>>e2e4  6.11    0   699160 e2e4 e7e5 g1f3 b8c6 f1c4 g8f6 b1c3 f8c5
>>>>nps=114484 ha=17.00% q=57.0% bc=71% br=NaN% mp=108<>99
>>>>pawnx=0 recapx=0 qcheckx=27853 checkx=0 futilx=0 qfutilx=0
>>>>
>>>>And with SEE:
>>>>
>>>>Alpha=-250 Beta=250 Maxdepth=8 MaxTime=9999999
>>>> 1/ 2  e2e4  0.00   35       41 e2e4
>>>> 2/ 4  e2e4  0.00    0      149 e2e4 e7e5
>>>> 3/ 5  e2e4  0.00   17      439 e2e4 e7e5 f1c4
>>>> 4/10  e2e4  0.02    0     2093 e2e4 e7e5 f1c4 f8c5
>>>> 5/13  e2e4  0.05   17     6550 e2e4 e7e5 g1f3 b8c6 f1c4
>>>> 6/20  e2e4  0.31    0    37096 e2e4 e7e5 g1f3 b8c6 f1c4 f8c5
>>>> 7/24  e2e4  0.81   17    90371 e2e4 e7e5 g1f3 b8c6 f1c4 g8f6 b1c3
>>>> 8/34  e2e4  6.48    4   740555 e2e4 g8f6 b1c3 e7e5 g1f3 b8c6 f1c4 f8c5
>>>>e2e4  6.48    4   740555 e2e4 g8f6 b1c3 e7e5 g1f3 b8c6 f1c4 f8c5
>>>>nps=114244 ha=35.00% q=50.0% bc=68% br=NaN% mp=105<>106
>>>>pawnx=0 recapx=0 qcheckx=9862 checkx=0 futilx=0 qfutilx=0
>>>>
>>>>The result is worse (6.11 seconds vs. 6.48 seconds). This is
>>>>true of a larger test of problem positions.
>>>>
>>>>The use of SEE was in the quiescence search only and
>>>>involved rejecting any search of a capture whose SEE
>>>>value to the to square of the capture was <0, otherwise
>>>>the move would be made, legality tested, and if legal,
>>>>then the recursive capture search performed (with the
>>>>same see test.)
>>>>
>>>>Is this an abnormal result? What could explain it? I thought
>>>>SEE was a shoe-in?
>>>>
>>>>Stuart
>>>
>>>The only thing I can think is that the SEE routine is not
>>>implemented correctly. For example, after e4, d5 I do a SEE
>>>on d5 and it returns -8000 instead of 0.
>>>
>>>So the SEE itself is clearly broken.
>>
>>an SEE gave me about 2x speedup overall, using bitboards
>
>
>Hmm, there is something wrong with your implementation. -8000 could mean 1000 -
>9000 (pawn - queen)? But why subtract the value of the queen, it does not get
>captured? There are only the scores of the two pawns that should be involved in
>the score. The queen would be the next_figure at the end but is not captured
>because there are no attackers left. The piece that currently is recapturing in
>SEE is only the victim in the next round of intereation in SEE.
>
>So, first swap_score: 100  (move e4xd5, win pawn d5)
>second: 100 - 100 = 0; (move Qd8xd5, win pawn d5)
>
>regards
>Andy

Andy -- thanks for your input, support, and code. It is working and
I tried SEE() with my program. For the details, please see my reply
to Alessandro.

Stuart



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