Author: Christophe Theron
Date: 22:41:21 08/10/04
Go up one level in this thread
On August 11, 2004 at 01:06:59, Eugene Nalimov wrote:
>Nice and very emotional post. Unfortunately, it is based on the wrong facts.
>
>*Both* Dell and Toshiba *are* selling computers without Windows preinstalled.
*SOME* models.
>For example, you can buy Dell systems with preinstalled Linux from
>http://www1.us.dell.com/content/products/compare.aspx/precn_n?c=us&cs=&l=en&s=bsd&.
>I did not search Dell site, but I was told Dell is selling Linux notebooks as
>well.
>
>Second, Dell is selling computers without *any* installed operating systems.
*SOME* models.
>Yes, agreement with Microsoft forces Dell to attach *some* OS to the shipped
>box. So Dell just ships those systems with FreeDOS -- see, for example,
>http://www.winnetmag.com/Article/ArticleID/26268/26268.html.
>
>Third, according to the Wall Street Journal, average OEM pays Microsft $45 for
>copy of Windows. Disclaimer: I don't know if it is true or not, I just giving
>you some numbers from the article. Link is here:
>http://online.wsj.com/article_email/0,,SB107869473053748560-H9jgINllah3nputbHyGba2Am4,00.html.
>I am not sure if the article is in the free access, so here is relevant part:
>
>---------------------------
>One can learn a lot about the computer industry by looking at the breakdown of
>manufacturing costs in an average desktop PC, as compiled by iSuppli Corp., a
>market-research firm. Excluding labor and shipping, and leaving out the costs of
>a monitor, keyboard or mouse, the typical desktop PC these days costs the Dells
>or the H-Ps of the world roughly $437 in parts.
>
>The biggest portion of that -- 30%, or $134 -- goes to Intel for a Pentium
>processor. The disk drives, including whatever CD or DVD is installed, cost
>around $104; the RAM memory is $54; and the remaining hardware items -- power
>supply, case, circuit boards -- total $100.
>
>The final 10%, or $45, goes to Microsoft for the Windows operating system.
>---------------------------
OK so Microsoft owes me $90 and Dell and Toshiba owe me the rest.
>So to summarize:
>
>(1) I am not sure why you was not able to buy Dell PC without Windows, but that
>is definitely not Microsoft fault. Dell is shipping such systems. Maybe it does
>not shipping such systems in your country, but it's Dell's decision. Agreement
>with Microsoft allows Dell to sell such systems.
>
>(2) I don't know where you get number "$350 for 2 copies of Windows XP". If you
>really paid Dell that money, than (according to Wall Street Journal), Dell gave
>$90 to Microsoft, and kept $260. Once again -- it was Dell's decision to sell
>you only PC with Windows, and "$350 for 2 copies of Windows XP" is Dell's price,
>not Microsoft's.
>
>(End of hard facts -- my speculation begins):
>
>As long as you will buy systems from Dell even when they come with Windows that
>you don't need, Dell will sell you *only* systems with Windows. Based on numbers
>from you and WSJ, each such system brings Dell extra $350/2-$45 == $130 profit.
>In normal situation, part of those $130 would be spent on the support costs. In
>your case, no support required, so $130 is pure profit.
>
>Thanks,
>Eugene
I'm sorry Eugene but it is a well known fact that it is absolutely impossible to
purchase a branded notebook without Windows. Many Linux users have reported the
problem in various places, and it's also my experience.
When asked, yes I asked, the Dell guys here told me that it is impossible to get
a Dell notebook without Windows. Pointing them to the relevant part of the Dell
site did not change their answer. They simply could not order a Dell notebook
without Windows.
It is in theory possible to get a refund for the OS (as it is illegal in my
country to link the sale of the software to the sale of the hardware), but it is
very hard in practice: you will have to spend a lot of time, and send many
letters. As far as I know there is a grand total of 1 (ONE) user who has
reported success in this area (after several months).
Naturally, Microsoft has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that all the
major brands refuse to sell most computers and almost all notebooks without
Windows. At least the US DOJ will never be able to prove it clearly. The
japanese DOJ has been trying to find evidence recently, but with a little luck
the documents had already been destroyed. :)
As for not encouraging Dell to continue in this way, you can count on me. The
next notebook I purchase I will probably purchase it from IBM, if I manage to
get them to sell it without Windows (and from my last talks with an IBM reseller
here, it's not even clear WHEN it will be possible). I will not give my money to
neither Dell nor Toshiba until they provide models with Linux preinstalled.
Christophe
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