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Subject: Re: To Bob Hyatt: Ply Number Versus Rating

Author: Robert Hyatt

Date: 07:16:21 01/04/99

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On January 04, 1999 at 00:23:26, blass uri wrote:

>
>On January 03, 1999 at 23:55:45, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>
>>On January 03, 1999 at 21:18:11, Leon Stancliff wrote:
>>
>>>Bob Hyatt,
>>>
>>>I think you could probably answer this question if anyone can. Do you know how
>>>the rating increases with ply depth. I have seen a figure of 200 points increase
>>>per ply. I do not believe this would be a constant figure. My Hiarcs 6 will
>>>normally reach 7 ply and sometimes 8 ply in the middle game. Do you have any
>>>kind of graph showing what might be expected with each ply increase from 4, 5,
>>>6, 7, 8 or 9 plies in the middle game. Does the increase in rating decrease as
>>>one moves to higher levels? In other words, do you get as more increase as you
>>>move from 7 to 8 than you do from 8 to 9.
>>>
>>>If anyone else has information on this topic please feel free to add your
>>>comments.
>>
>>A very hard question.  I believe that "dumb" programs get less from another
>>ply than "smart" programs.  At shallow depths, another ply helps _every_
>>program avoid/find tactics.  At deeper depths, tactics fade out somewhat and
>>if the program has little positional knowledge, it won't be able to get any-
>>thing out of the extra plies.  A smart program will continue to improve,
>>however, as it simply finds deeper "plans" to use its positional knowledge.
>>
>>How you categorize the various programs would be fun however, as that would
>>start a small war here.  My best guess would be to simply take a common
>>cpu and run all the programs.  In general, the faster the NPS, the "dumber"
>>the program, since the eval is the best place to pick up speed (IE in Crafty,
>>I spend over 50% of my time in Evaluate() which is fairly high by today's
>>standard.  Although programs like Hiarcs are probably at 75% or so, while a
>>program like Fritz is likely at 10% or less.)
>
>I do not think that Hiarcs earn more from time
>I read that Hiarcs7 is good at blitz.
>
>If you were right then I would expect hiarcs7 to have better results at
>tournament time control(relative to blitz) but I did not see it.
>
>Hiarcs7 won Junior5 at blitz and lost 6:4 against Junior5 at 40/40 games of
>enrique.
>
>Uri


I don't think I said that...  What I said was that on a ply-by-ply basis, a
program that is "smarter" gains more than a program that is "dumber".  This
based on personal observation more than anything.  However, I haven't seen
Hiarcs thump fritz, watching blitz games on ICC.  Fritz usually wins blitz
matches quite handily.




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