Author: Gerd Isenberg
Date: 13:03:29 08/28/04
Go up one level in this thread
On August 28, 2004 at 15:21:59, Rolf Tueschen wrote: >On August 28, 2004 at 13:10:53, Gerd Isenberg wrote: > >>On August 28, 2004 at 12:57:19, Rolf Tueschen wrote: >> >>>On August 28, 2004 at 11:44:30, Gerd Isenberg wrote: >>> >>>>On August 28, 2004 at 10:23:53, Frank Quisinsky wrote: >>>> >>>>>Hi there, >>>>> >>>>>Eugenio sent us the following open letter. >>>>>The letter is public on Arena webpages (News-Ticker). >>>>> >>>>>Best >>>>>Frank >>>>> >>>>>Eugenio wrote: >>>>> >>>>>--- >>>>> >>>>>"I've used crafty source to implement my own program ElChinito. >>>>> >>>>>My public and sincere apologize to Bob Hyatt not to mention that in ElChinito's >>>>>readme file and copyright notes and did not ask consequently for permission. I >>>>>will ensure that ElChinito is not longer public available for download and plays >>>>>any public tournaments. >>>>> >>>>>I've inform ICGA and French Computer Chess Association about this issue to >>>>>accept their decision, and discalificate Chinito from the played events. >>>>> >>>>>My apologize to Frank Q. for the damages caused. >>>>> >>>>>My apologize to any one of the tester and downloaders of Arena. >>>>> >>>>>Eugenio Castillo." >>>> >>>> >>>>My respect to Eugenio Castillo for his late apology. >>>>It seems that he had a hard time and a long fight to decide so. >>>> >>>>It was a severe offence of Eugenio, i understand that routines like NextMove >>>>have another quality than some cray like bitscan routines or moveInput. >>>> >>>>Eugenio obviously used Crafty framework as a toolbox for the bitboard >>>>infrastructure and parts of move generation and even minor parts of eval. He >>>>was, probably due his naivety, not fully aware of the cloning issue or did >>>>repress it in some way, after receiving no answer from Bob after some tries. >>>>Didn't Dann Corbit mention Eugenio mailed Bob about that issue, but Bob didn't >>>>receive for what reasons ever? >>>> >>>>It is difficult to quantify for me, but it seems that most of ElChinitos >>>>strength was not based on Crafty but on Eugenio's own search and most parts of >>>>it's evaluation. >>>> >>>>So i respect his decision to don't make ElChinito open source and i suggest to >>>>give ElChinito a second chance after some time, until Eugenio assures that no >>>>more parts of crafty are inside - IMHO. >>>> >>>>Gerd >>> >>> >>>This way you cant help a collegue! You do the same, already Frank Q did. You try >>>to blame those who were cheated. This is indecent. >> >>Was that really an insult from my side? > >Yes! I will show you here below. > > >> >>I was a bit harsh, but i asked some questions and was only aware of the posted >>assembly at that time. > >Gert, Why do you always confuse my name? >in science talking about witchhunt is like crazy! You say you asked >questions. Refuted! Because if you are NOT experienced enough then ask questions >but dont insult with such ugly dirt! Gert, because you couldn't follow the >debate, that doesn't justify that you insinuate that some noble man might be >involved/interested in witchhunts. Idont know your profession but say you are an >engineer. Now you build bridges. And for a particular question you make a >qualified analysis where you showed that someone else was cheating with his >data. Would that be allowed if I then came and called you involved in >witchhunting just because I'm angry and I cant understand why suddenly someone >is attacking a friend of mine? > I'm not a scientist. Only thanks to Willy Brandt second education way Dipl.Informatiker FH. I replied to Paul after he mentioned witch hunting, that i had it in mind too. My first impression was "Mach meinen Kumpel nicht an!" > >> >>http://www.talkchess.com/forums/1/message.html?383737 >> >>I asked "Did i missed something?" >>I asked "BTW. Is it legal to disassembly others executables?" > > >Refuted. Dont play naive. If you >asked if you missed something that doesn't allow or justify your insult! > It was not my intention to insult. I admit that i asked questions in a biased way. > > >> >> >>> >>>A guy who committed fraud stated that he had contacted Bob, Frank said, several >>>times, and who said that Bob didn't answer (!!), but Bob explained that he had >>>never received a request by Castillo. >> >>Yes. >> >>> >>>Do you, Gerd, now want to put Bob and Castillo on equal levels. >> >>I simply believe both in that issue. > > >What a hoax!!! I cant believe it that you are so premature. Of course a man >commiting fraud is NOT in the same boat with Bob. There are a lot of people in this scene if have great respect for. One for sure is Bob. >Ah, now I see a possible link >with you and Vincent. Fine loyalty for other computerchess collegues. But for a >multi time Wch you have no respect? > Sorry, what is with my link to Vincent? Yes, we whole chessprogrammers are secret conspirators. > >>What is the reason that Dann Corbit was involved? > > >I tell you. He was as confused as you were. He thought for a longer moment that >he could hope that Castillo could be whitewashed. He didn't answer me other than >saying that I didn't understand his message. But I understood it well. The whole >Bob story is of no value for the debate because Castillo committed the fraud if >Bob answered in time or NOT. Castillo was obliged to include a mention of Bob's >Crafty with or without Bob's permission. Man, do we have to debate now Adam & >Eve questions. It's incredible. > >As you could see even Bob's late Christian excuses for the programmer was >meaningless because it's NOT Bob who's deciding if it was fraud or not. And who decides? You, as the moral imperator of computerchess? >The >not-mention of Crafty is identical with fraud! Period. >No matter if Bob is angry or a Saint... > That matters a lot. He may know details you didn't. > > >> >>> >>>I must honestly say that you can forget all about a rehabilitation in this case. >>>I do also feel much sorrow that Frank Q and also you insulted Paul H here in CCC >>>of something like witchhunt. >> >>My reply to Paul Hunter: >> >>http://www.talkchess.com/forums/1/message.html?383861 >> >>http://www.talkchess.com/forums/1/message.html?383864 >> >>"Thanks for clarifying this again. >>So the executable contained a symbol map. >>Yes, witch hunting really came in my mind too." >>... >>"My apologies to you." > >Yes, I saw that and it was a fair message. But now you continue with the message >to Quisinsky which is again the try to exculpate them. The following paragraphe >is perhaps not so known to you but my text doesn't imply that you didn't >apologize to Paul. It means, sorry that I have to tell you, but you asked for >it, that you should stay on the level of apologizing after that unbelievable >insult of withhunting. The same is for Quisinsky. It's morally odd to see you >two now in the attack position so short after your witchhunt allegation. Was >that understandable now? Please show some respect here. I think I could be both >your father and you simply dont want to listen although you made such a grave >mistake! > >Honestly Gert, I wouldn't have written anything at all if Quisinsky wouldn't >have behaved here as if he just had made a typo or such petitesse. This is an >outrage scandal for the whole computerchess family and that is no occasion of >making jokes or playing naive. > >Let me finally specify. Other than the above you didn't do anything wrong. I see >you desperate try to show solidarity with a collegue. That honors you, Gert. But >that here is such a scandal that we shouldn't take it lightly. Bob certainly has >a somewhat "verklärte" view on these things because he has seen so many >possibilities to cheat and he was himself unfairly attacked for alleged >cheating. But look, he didn't doubt the work by Paul H for a second. > If Bob has a misty view, what about your view? What do you suggest to do with Eugenio? Gerd > >> >>>I mean you should apologize instead of publishing >>>such utter nonsense in your actual message. I mean is this scene so rotten dirty >>>that you cant feel what this is dirty in your message? >> >>Thanks, >>Gerd
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