Author: Robert Hyatt
Date: 18:24:44 09/03/04
Go up one level in this thread
On September 03, 2004 at 17:55:44, George Tsavdaris wrote: >On September 03, 2004 at 17:00:43, Robert Hyatt wrote: > >>On September 03, 2004 at 16:01:45, Graham Banks wrote: >> >>>On September 03, 2004 at 15:37:40, Robert Hyatt wrote: >>> >>>>On September 03, 2004 at 15:07:17, Graham Banks wrote: >>>> >>>>>On September 03, 2004 at 13:17:51, robert flesher wrote: >>>>> >>>>>>If you are going to waste your precious time and everyone else here then please >>>>>>indicate that you have given unfair advantages to certain engines. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>I think people should read the setup details and maybe look through the whole >>>>>range of games before going off half cocked! >>>>>All engines are using the Fritz powerbook tournament settings. There is the odd >>>>>strange opening due to the maximum variety setting used, but I think you'll find >>>>>that this has equally affected all engines and that no particular engine has >>>>>been disadvantaged. >>>>>For the final of the tournament I intend to optimise the powerbook settings, so >>>>>this should eliminate any unusual openings. >>>>>Graham. >>>> >>>> >>>>In other words, you are "flipping a coin" to see who wins in the early rounds? >>>> >>>>That is _exactly_ what is happening. And to say "it averages out" shows a lack >>>>of statistical understanding. If you play an _infinite_ number of games, it >>>>_might_ average out, assuming the programs all select openings the same way. >>>> >>>>This does make very little sense... >>> >>> >>> >>>Hi Bob, >>>in a limited Swiss, I'd agree. In a round robin over 76 rounds, I don't. >>>Regards, Graham. >> >> >>So if I flip a coin 10,000 times, you don't think there will be any point where >>there are 76 consecutive heads or tails??? > > That's a bad example. The case you're refering has a probability of >1,3ยท10^-17 % (Tooooo small), while in the case of openings Deep Sjeng for >example would possibly have at the best case 2-3 times a bad opening at 76 >rounds while Comet in the worst case 6-7. So it's not so big difference between >the advantage of Sjeng against Comet. > Although i agree that moves like 1.a4? 1.Nh3? should be avoided in matches >between the top engines. > I'm not going to pull out my stat book to compute that, but your answer looks wrong. I didn't say what are the odds to hit 76 heads in a row, period. I mentioned 76 heads in a row out of 10,000 samples which is a different thing. Of course 76 was just a number also. But it is definitely possible that in 76 games, you can get 76 bad openings, based on what I saw of that book and the settings used. It is also just as possible to get 76 good openings. Which means the results are a bit less than meaningful... When I see a game where Crafty plays 1. a4 I don't consider it anything at all, not a real game, not a skittles game, not even worth a glance. It just won't happen in "real games"... >> >>more rounds is better. 76 is nowhere near enough. >> >>But run the event however you want. Such openings simply don't make any sense >>to me since no "normal" program will _ever_ play them in a serious game...
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