Computer Chess Club Archives


Search

Terms

Messages

Subject: Re: Knee jerk reaction!

Author: Robert Hyatt

Date: 18:24:44 09/03/04

Go up one level in this thread


On September 03, 2004 at 17:55:44, George Tsavdaris wrote:

>On September 03, 2004 at 17:00:43, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>
>>On September 03, 2004 at 16:01:45, Graham Banks wrote:
>>
>>>On September 03, 2004 at 15:37:40, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>>
>>>>On September 03, 2004 at 15:07:17, Graham Banks wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On September 03, 2004 at 13:17:51, robert flesher wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>If you are going to waste your precious time and everyone else here then  please
>>>>>>indicate that you have given unfair advantages to certain engines.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>I think people should read the setup details and maybe look through the whole
>>>>>range of games before going off half cocked!
>>>>>All engines are using the Fritz powerbook tournament settings. There is the odd
>>>>>strange opening due to the maximum variety setting used, but I think you'll find
>>>>>that this has equally affected all engines and that no particular engine has
>>>>>been disadvantaged.
>>>>>For the final of the tournament I intend to optimise the powerbook settings, so
>>>>>this should eliminate any unusual openings.
>>>>>Graham.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>In other words, you are "flipping a coin" to see who wins in the early rounds?
>>>>
>>>>That is _exactly_ what is happening.  And to say "it averages out" shows a lack
>>>>of statistical understanding.  If you play an _infinite_ number of games, it
>>>>_might_ average out, assuming the programs all select openings the same way.
>>>>
>>>>This does make very little sense...
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>Hi Bob,
>>>in a limited Swiss, I'd agree. In a round robin over 76 rounds, I don't.
>>>Regards, Graham.
>>
>>
>>So if I flip a coin 10,000 times, you don't think there will be any point where
>>there are 76 consecutive heads or tails???
>
> That's a bad example. The case you're refering has a probability of
>1,3ยท10^-17 % (Tooooo small), while in the case of openings Deep Sjeng for
>example would possibly have at the best case 2-3 times a bad opening at 76
>rounds while Comet in the worst case 6-7. So it's not so big difference between
>the advantage of Sjeng against Comet.
> Although i agree that moves like 1.a4? 1.Nh3? should be avoided in matches
>between the top engines.
>

I'm not going to pull out my stat book to compute that, but your answer looks
wrong.  I didn't say what are the odds to hit 76 heads in a row, period.  I
mentioned 76 heads in a row out of 10,000 samples which is a different thing.

Of course 76 was just a number also.  But it is definitely possible that in 76
games, you can get 76 bad openings, based on what I saw of that book and the
settings used.  It is also just as possible to get 76 good openings.  Which
means the results are a bit less than meaningful...

When I see a game where Crafty plays 1. a4 I don't consider it anything at all,
not a real game, not a skittles game, not even worth a glance.  It just won't
happen in "real games"...


>>
>>more rounds is better.  76 is nowhere near enough.
>>
>>But run the event however you want.  Such openings simply don't make any sense
>>to me since no "normal" program will _ever_ play them in a serious game...



This page took 0 seconds to execute

Last modified: Thu, 15 Apr 21 08:11:13 -0700

Current Computer Chess Club Forums at Talkchess. This site by Sean Mintz.