Author: Howard Exner
Date: 08:52:29 01/08/99
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On January 08, 1999 at 08:06:03, Matthew Herman wrote: >On January 08, 1999 at 04:22:09, Howard Exner wrote: > >>b5k1/7p/4p1pP/4P1P1/8/8/8/N5K1 w >> >>Here is a position based on a game between Cm6000 and Fritz 5.32. >>( the recent game with the move d3 thread). >>I created this position to see if Chess programs have >>an accurate assessment of the relative values that the Bishop and >>Knight have. Material is equal yet all endgame authors I've read usually >>comment on positions like this in the following manner - "White has >>a huge advantage as all the pawns are on the same side of the board. >>Furthermore whites pawns cannot be attacked and once the powerfull >>white Knight reaches f6 the game will be over." >> >> >>How will programs eventually come to deal with assessing this position >>correctly? Will this be a kind of position that programs will never >>quite understand? Do any programs penalize the bishop here or >>conversely, give the Knight extra value in this position? > >By the way .. in this position it isn't so easy to get the knight to f6 .. (the >Bishop goes to f5 and the k to e7 and it is really hard to penetrate from there. With the Knight manoevered to c5 and the white king on c6 or c7 then the square d7 is the route to take to get to f6. >One problem with programs dealing with this, is that the bishop has a *wide* >open diagonal .. so therefore it might think it to be active instead of bad. Yes I agree that programs will mis-evaluate this position because of this idea that the bishop has "lots of mobility". But we know fom experience that here the bishop is biting on air. I'm just curious if programs will recognize this through some kind of knowledge code. Even in middle games the knight/bishop take on different strengths based on pawn structure but again I think that programs find this basic knowledge difficult.(relative value of minor pieces) One recent example is the KKup2 game of Crafty vs Rebel 9. From my take when I saw crafty's well placed knight vs Rebel's lame bishop I thought game over for Rebel. As it turns out the game ended in a draw but still I wonder how many programs would have evaluated the game at about +1.00 even though material was even.(In this game Crafty eventually did convert the good knight into winning a pawn)
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