Author: Uri Blass
Date: 01:03:26 09/25/04
Go up one level in this thread
On September 25, 2004 at 03:13:30, Drexel,Michael wrote: >On September 25, 2004 at 02:36:28, Uri Blass wrote: > >>On September 25, 2004 at 02:09:20, Drexel,Michael wrote: >> >>>On September 24, 2004 at 07:43:57, Joachim Rang wrote: >>> >>>>On September 24, 2004 at 05:07:52, stuart taylor wrote: >>>> >>>>>On September 24, 2004 at 04:44:23, jim r uselton wrote: >>>>> >>>>>>Hello, I'm a newbie at computer chess and I have a question. How strong are the >>>>>>programs you buy right off the shelf. The Fritz, the Shredder, etc., etc. >>>>>> >>>>>>Will they play at GM strength or do you need a strong player guiding and >>>>>>controlling move selection? >>>>> >>>>>The top programs on normal PC's of today, will often beat a GM, perhaps even >>>>>more often than not. If even a GM wants to have a fighting chance, he has to be >>>>>very familiar with computer style chess. >>>>> >>>>>This does not mean that a GM doesn't understand better than a computer. Any GM >>>>>SHOULD beat a computer in almost any game, but that is now very hard to >>>>>actualize any more, so you might as well say that computers are equal to a >>>>>strong GM, but in a certain way. >>>>> >>>>>I think that if any GM would analyze absolutely determined to win, like in >>>>>correspondents chess, then he could win (or draw) almost any game off any >>>>>computer, even if the computer was also left analyzing for that same amount of >>>>>time. But the GM would have to work very very hard. >>>>> >>>>>S.Taylor >>>> >>>>exactly that kind of experiment is happening right now: >>> >>>GM = Fide-GM >>>Arno Nickel is not a Fide-GM. >>>So that experiment does not happen right now. >>> >>>Michael >>> >>>> >>>>http://www.chessfriend.com >>>> >>>>Select "GM Nickel - Engines" in the Navigation. >>>> >>>>so far it seems an engine with a dedicated and decent (not top) computer >>>>analyzing at CC-time-controls (several days per move) is playing on GM-Level in >>>>Correspondence Chess too. >>>> >>>>Of course Arno Nickel did some minor mistakes but the match indicates that even >>>>on CC it is nowadays very hard for a human to beat a computer. >>> >>>With the help of a computer it´s very easy. >>> >>>Michael >> >>If it is very easy then you could expect nickel to get 6-0 result or at least >>5-1. >>He is not a fide GM but he is also not a weak chess player. >> >>There is a difference between claiming that very strong players can do it with >>the help of computer(and even this was not proved) and claiming that it is very >>easy. > >It would be very easy for a very strong player. I would expect Ulf Andersson to >get 6-0 or at least 5-1 for example. > >> >>Note also that playing against a computer does not mean that you know the name >>of your opponent and I doubt if you can beat a strong private program like >>falcon at correspondence time control easily even if falcon is slightly weaker >>than shredder. > >I would _always_ get it out of book before move 10 somehow and beat it easily >although I´m not a very strong player. :) > >Michael You assume that it is easy to beat a program when you are out of book. I do not think that you are right. Uri
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