Author: Stuart Cracraft
Date: 12:29:05 10/01/04
Go up one level in this thread
On October 01, 2004 at 14:43:10, Robert Hyatt wrote: >On October 01, 2004 at 12:28:00, Stuart Cracraft wrote: > >>On September 30, 2004 at 20:02:34, Robert Hyatt wrote: >> >>>On September 30, 2004 at 18:23:20, Stuart Cracraft wrote: >>> >>>>On September 30, 2004 at 18:07:46, Robert Hyatt wrote: >>>> >>>>>On September 30, 2004 at 15:50:43, Stuart Cracraft wrote: >>>>> >>>>>>On September 30, 2004 at 09:38:04, Robert Hyatt wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>>On September 30, 2004 at 00:52:04, Will Singleton wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>On September 29, 2004 at 23:52:15, Stuart Cracraft wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>[D] 4r1k1/p1qr1p2/2pb1Bp1/1p5p/3P1n1R/1B3P2/PP3PK1/2Q4R w - - bm Qxf4; >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>In this position I had everything turned on and got the solution >>>>>>>>>in a little more than 1 1/2 minutes: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> 1/11 g2f1 0.01 -953 945 g2f1 f4d5 >>>>>>>>> g2f1 f4d5 >>>>>>>>> 2/12 g2f1 0.01 -953 1644 >>>>>>>>> g2f1 f4d5 c1g5 >>>>>>>>> 3/12 g2f1 0.02 -953 5064 >>>>>>>>> g2f1 f4d5 c1g5 d5f6 >>>>>>>>> 4/20 g2f1 0.09 -953 20655 >>>>>>>>> g2f1 f4d5 b3d5 c6d5 c1c7 d6c7 f1g1 >>>>>>>>> 5/22 g2f1 0.65 -953 168943 >>>>>>>>> g2f1 b5b4 b3a4 f4d5 f6g5 d5e7 >>>>>>>>> 6/26 g2f1 2.59 -953 620310 >>>>>>>>> g2f1 b5b4 mtmt >>>>>>>>> 7/32> g2f1 60.58 -552 14192153 g2f1 e8c8 c1b1 f4d5 b1e4 d6b4 f6e5 c7b6 >>>>>>>>> g2f1 e8c8 c1b1 f4d5 b1e4 d6b4 >>>>>>>>> 7/34 c1f4 99.42 5113 24537823 c1f4 e8e6 f4g5 d7e7 b3e6 e7e6 h1d1 d6e7 f6e7 >>>>>>>>> c1f4 e8e6 f4g5 d7e7 b3e6 e7e6 h1d1 >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>I turned off null move (R=2) and got the solution in about 11 seconds: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>Alpha=-1332 Beta=-531 Maxdepth=9999999 MaxTime=99999999 >>>>>>>>> 1/11 g2f1 0.01 -953 908 g2f1 f4d5 >>>>>>>>> g2f1 f4d5 >>>>>>>>> 2/12 g2f1 0.01 -953 1565 >>>>>>>>> g2f1 f4d5 c1g5 >>>>>>>>> 3/14 g2f1 0.07 -953 20084 >>>>>>>>> g2f1 f4d5 c1g5 d5f6 >>>>>>>>> 4/22 g2f1 0.60 -953 131543 >>>>>>>>> g2f1 f4d5 b3d5 c6d5 c1c7 d6c7 f1g1 >>>>>>>>> 5/26>g2f1 6.80 -552 1607444 >>>>>>>>> g2f1 b5b4 b3a4 f4d5 f6g5 d5e7 >>>>>>>>> 5/36 c1f4 10.70 2260 2466497 c1f4 d6f4 h4h5 g6h5 h1h5 f4h6 h5h6 c7g3 g2g3 d7d6 >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> c1f4 d6f4 h4h5 g6h5 h1h5 f4h6 h5h6 c7g3 g2g3 d7d >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>So now my question is, would it make sense to consider an idea of >>>>>>>>>disabling null move under additional circumstances if those >>>>>>>>>circumstances can be identified. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> endgame >>>>>>>>> side to move in check >>>>>>>>> inside principal variation >>>>>>>>> last move a null move >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>These are the ones I disable for -- I don't disable null move for >>>>>>>>>any material-related or alpha/beta related measures but perhaps >>>>>>>>>I should. Are any in common use? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>Stuart >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>If the previous move was a piece moving near the enemy king, I don't null move. >>>>>>>>Also, don't null near the leafs. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>That is a bad idea. That is where most of the _gain_ from null-move happens. I >>>>>>>do it everywhere without this WAC141 problem stuff bothering anything. >>>>>> >>>>>>Do you mean for both near the leafs and enemy king or only one or the other? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>Near the leaves... >>>>> >>>>>Actually near the frontier as frontier nodes are those along the outer bound of >>>>>the basic search. Leaves (in my program) never have null moves anywhere since >>>>>they are in the q-search... >>>> >>>>Okay now I'm really confused. >>>> >>>>Frontier = depth = 0 >>>>Pre-frontier = depth = 1 >>>>Pre-Pre-frontier = depth = 2 >>>>Leaf = terminal node after quiescence search (no more caps, etc.) possible >>> >>>Yes... >>> >>> >>>> >>>>Is that how you're classifying it? So no null move at depth = 1 is bad. >>> >>> >>>yes again... >>> >> >>Urk! That's the one thing that helps me solve WAC 141 in < 5 seconds >>because it practically turns off null move -- so toss that idea. > >Just remember, you can avoid all automobile mechanical problems by walking. :) > >Not very effective, but it will work... I actually knew a guy at work back in the 1980's who did just that. Jacob Sarvela at SRI. He owned no cars. Walking and bicyling only. He kept a pedometer on his belt and ensured his apartment was not far from work.
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