Author: Ed Schröder
Date: 07:59:39 11/10/04
Go up one level in this thread
On November 10, 2004 at 10:18:21, chandler yergin wrote: >On November 10, 2004 at 03:09:04, Ed Schröder wrote: > >>On November 10, 2004 at 00:48:26, chandler yergin wrote: >> >>>On November 10, 2004 at 00:40:07, chandler yergin wrote: >>> >>>>On November 09, 2004 at 17:10:02, Anthony Cozzie wrote: >>>> >>>>>You are missing the point, Chandler. >>>>> >>>>>You probably played through the game with Shredder 8 on. >>>> >>>> >>>>I did NOT PLay through the game! >>>>I started on Black's move 10, turned on 'infinite analysis' >>>>3 lines. It found 11.a3 and 11.h5 almost immediatly. >>>>I decreased the 3rd line, and let the other two run. >>>>I then 'clipped' the analysis & Posted it. >>>>There was NO learning! >>>> >>>>So your assumption, along with Uli's and Ed's are incorrect! >>>>I can't make it any simpler. >>>>CY >>>> >>>>I did analyze the game later, and saved it. >>>> >>>> >>>> At that point, it >>>>>found that some of the positions it originally thought were good for black, were >>>>>in fact good for white, and it recorded them. You then returned to the initial >>>>>position, and boom! it has learned from its mistakes. >>>>> >>>>>What is the difference you ask? The point is that Shredder would not play those >>>>>moves on its own, without help from a human, without a very long time to search. >>>>> >>>>>anthony >>>> >>>>Try it yourself... >>>>Don't lock on one variation, >>>>Use 3 lines, start any place in the game.. >>>>Watch when you get to move 11. >>>>Clip analysis and please Post it. >>>>Thanks, >>>>CY >>> >>>Here's what it looks like: >>>Ed - Rebel 12 >>> [D]rnbq1rk1/pp1n1p1p/4p1p1/3pP1N1/1b1p1P1P/2NB4/PPP3P1/R1BQK2R w KQ - 0 1 >>> >>>Analysis by Hiarcs 8: >>> >>>1. µ (-1.04): 11.a3 Ba5 12.b4 dxc3 13.h5 Bb6 14.Nxh7 Nxe5 15.fxe5 >>>2. -+ (-1.85): 11.h5 dxc3 12.b3 Be7 13.hxg6 fxg6 14.Bxg6 Bxg5 15.Bxh7+ Kg7 >>>16.fxg5 Nxe5 17.Qh5 >>>3. -+ (-3.43): 11.Bxg6 fxg6 12.Qxd4 Nc6 13.Qd2 Qe8 14.a3 Ba5 15.b4 Bb6 16.Bb2 >>> >>>(Yergin, MyTown 09.11.2004) >>> >>>Note, I used a different Engine, so there was NO learning! >>>I could have used 5 or 6 lines, and more Candidate moves would be evaluated. >>>If you limit it to one Variation; that's all you will see for hours and hours. >>>CY >> >> >>You have to learn a lot Chan. Using multi analysis means that the first move >>(11.a3) is the best move according the engine. It further means that the second >>best move is 11.h5 and the third best move is 11.Bxg6. > > (At that point in time yes) > >Thank you Ed! My Point! >The engine finds 11.h5, when you or someone said it cound run for hours and not >find it. That, was ludicrous! You know that. >You are misleading when you & Uli keep saying that the engine can't find it and >wouldn't even consider it without human help! >That's Wrong! >That's my point. >>In a real game the engine will only play the best move, thus 11.a3 > >Of course Now we are talking... Here in CCC this is the definition. Positions are posted to find the best_move, nobody cares about the second or third best move. To demonstrate the principle consider an example. [d]2rr2k1/1b3ppp/pb2p3/1p2P3/1P2BPnq/P1N3P1/1B2Q2P/R4R1K b - - bm Rxc3; In his famous position (Rubinstein) nobody cares about the second or third best moves (1..Qe7, 1..Bxe4+ etc.) but the move to find is 1..Rxc3!! When an engine has Rxc3 as second or third best move it is considered the engine can not find the sacrifice. These are the ways of CCC. Ed
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