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Subject: Re: Immortal game? Qc7?! analyse by S8 (Be7!)

Author: chandler yergin

Date: 15:08:17 11/10/04

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On November 10, 2004 at 12:36:00, Anthony Cozzie wrote:

>On November 10, 2004 at 00:48:26, chandler yergin wrote:
>
>>On November 10, 2004 at 00:40:07, chandler yergin wrote:
>>
>>>On November 09, 2004 at 17:10:02, Anthony Cozzie wrote:
>>>
>>>>You are missing the point, Chandler.
>>>>
>>>>You probably played through the game with Shredder 8 on.
>>>
>>>
>>>I did NOT PLay through the game!
>>>I started on Black's move 10, turned on 'infinite analysis'
>>>3 lines. It found 11.a3 and 11.h5  almost immediatly.
>>>I decreased the 3rd line, and let the other two run.
>>>I then 'clipped' the analysis & Posted it.
>>>There was NO learning!
>>>
>>>So your assumption, along with Uli's and Ed's are incorrect!
>>>I can't make it any simpler.
>>>CY
>>>
>>>I did analyze the game later, and saved it.
>>>
>>>
>>>  At that point, it
>>>>found that some of the positions it originally thought were good for black, were
>>>>in fact good for white, and it recorded them.  You then returned to the initial
>>>>position, and boom! it has learned from its mistakes.
>>>>
>>>>What is the difference you ask?  The point is that Shredder would not play those
>>>>moves on its own, without help from a human, without a very long time to search.
>>>>
>>>>anthony
>>>
>>>Try it yourself...
>>>Don't lock on one variation,
>>>Use 3 lines, start any place in the game..
>>>Watch when you get to move 11.
>>>Clip analysis and please Post it.
>>>Thanks,
>>>CY
>>
>>Here's what it looks like:
>>Ed - Rebel 12
>> [D]rnbq1rk1/pp1n1p1p/4p1p1/3pP1N1/1b1p1P1P/2NB4/PPP3P1/R1BQK2R w KQ - 0 1
>>
>>Analysis by Hiarcs 8:
>>
>>1. ยต (-1.04): 11.a3 Ba5 12.b4 dxc3 13.h5 Bb6 14.Nxh7 Nxe5 15.fxe5
>>2. -+ (-1.85): 11.h5 dxc3 12.b3 Be7 13.hxg6 fxg6 14.Bxg6 Bxg5 15.Bxh7+ Kg7
>>16.fxg5 Nxe5 17.Qh5
>>3. -+ (-3.43): 11.Bxg6 fxg6 12.Qxd4 Nc6 13.Qd2 Qe8 14.a3 Ba5 15.b4 Bb6 16.Bb2
>>
>>(Yergin, MyTown 09.11.2004)
>>
>>Note, I used a different Engine, so there was NO learning!
>>I could have used 5 or 6 lines, and more Candidate moves would be evaluated.
>>If you limit it to one Variation; that's all you will see for hours and hours.
>>CY
>
>By that logic, I could put zappa in 50-best line mode and it would solve every
>test position ;)
>
>anthony

Nonsense!
Look at the results of Computers in 'solving' Test Positions!
Programs have Bugs!
Relying on Analysis Modules is courting Disaster!
They are a 'tool', nothing more, they have no intelligence, no strategy,
they  store and retrieve information. Their evaluations when 'out of book'
are based on 'static' considerations in a quiescent position  with no forced
lines or combos, as programmed , weights given for  King Safety, mobilty, pawn
structure etc. etc..  until you get into EGTB's, then play is exact.
Hey, I give great credit to the programmers of the Top Programs, they are
Monsters!
But...
;)
CY



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