Author: Uri Blass
Date: 15:22:20 01/10/05
Go up one level in this thread
On January 10, 2005 at 17:02:40, Duncan Roberts wrote: >On January 10, 2005 at 15:18:09, Andrew Williams wrote: > >>Hi, >> >>Last Friday (7th January 2005) I started PM on a material-only search from the >>starting position. This was in response to a request from Duncan Roberts: >> >>http://www.talkchess.com/forums/2/message.html?151665 >> >>On Saturday 8th, I posted a progress report: >> >>http://www.talkchess.com/forums/2/message.html?151865 >> >>I was hopeful that PM would finish 35 plies over the weekend, but it didn't >>happen. When I got up this morning, there had been no progress since Saturday >>afternoon and I didn't want to leave my PC on all day. PM had had 43 hours since >>it finished ply 34, but although it was still burning CPU time, there was no >>more output. The last I heard from PM was: >> >>30= +0.00 00:28:36.541087088735 1.a3 a6 2.a4 a5 3.b3 b6 4.c3 c6 >> 5.b4 axb4 6.cxb4 e6 7.Bb2 Nf6 >> 8.b5 cxb5 9.axb5 Rxa1 10.Bxa1 g6 >> 11.Nc3 d6 12.Nf3 >>31> +0.00 01:00:13.772083574223 1.a3 a6 2.a4 a5 3.b3 b6 4.c3 c6 5.b4 axb4 >> 6.cxb4 e6 7.Bb2 Nf6 8.b5 cxb5 9.axb5 Rxa1 >> 10.Bxa1 g6 11.Nc3 d6 12.Nf3 Qe7 13.d4 >>31< +0.01 01:09:45.04-1811636011 1.a3 >>31= +0.00 01:09:45.04-1811636011 1.a3 a6 2.a4 a5 3.b3 b6 4.c3 c6 5.b4 axb4 >> 6.cxb4 e6 7.Bb2 Nf6 8.b5 cxb5 9.axb5 Rxa1 >> 10.Bxa1 g6 11.Nc3 d6 12.Nf3 Qe7 13.d4 >>32> +0.00 02:09:55.47 303672321 1.a3 a6 2.a4 a5 3.b3 b6 4.c3 c6 5.b4 axb4 >> 6.cxb4 e6 7.Bb2 Nf6 8.b5 cxb5 9.axb5 Rxa1 >> 10.Bxa1 g6 11.Nc3 d6 12.Nf3 Qe7 13.d4 Kd8 >>32< +0.01 02:27:21.531056234340 1.a3 >>32= +0.00 02:27:21.531056234340 1.a3 a6 2.a4 a5 3.b3 b6 4.c3 c6 5.b4 axb4 >> 6.cxb4 e6 7.Bb2 Nf6 8.b5 cxb5 9.axb5 Rxa1 >> 10.Bxa1 g6 11.Nc3 d6 12.Nf3 Qe7 13.d4 Kd8 >>33> +0.00 05:02:57.082077668534 1.a3 a6 2.a4 a5 3.b3 b6 4.c3 c6 5.b4 axb4 >> 6.cxb4 e6 7.Bb2 Nf6 8.b5 cxb5 9.axb5 Rxa1 >> 10.Bxa1 g6 11.Nc3 d6 12.Nf3 e5 13.e3 >>33< +0.01 05:41:54.93-634541739 1.a3 >>33= +0.00 05:41:55.06-634541739 1.a3 a6 2.a4 a5 3.b3 b6 4.c3 c6 5.b4 axb4 >> 6.cxb4 e6 7.Bb2 Nf6 8.b5 cxb5 9.axb5 Rxa1 >> 10.Bxa1 g6 11.Nc3 d6 12.Nf3 e5 13.e3 >>34> +0.00 11:36:50.42-1671302356 1.a3 a6 2.a4 a5 3.b3 b6 4.c3 c6 5.b4 axb4 >> 6.cxb4 e6 7.Bb2 Nf6 8.b5 cxb5 9.axb5 Rxa1 >> 10.Bxa1 g6 11.Nc3 d6 12.Nf3 e5 13.e3 Ke7 >> 14.Qe2 >>34< +0.01 13:09:24.491898767447 1.a3 >>34= +0.00 13:09:24.491898767447 1.a3 a6 2.a4 a5 3.b3 b6 4.c3 c6 5.b4 axb4 >> 6.cxb4 e6 7.Bb2 Nf6 8.b5 cxb5 9.axb5 Rxa1 >> 10.Bxa1 g6 11.Nc3 d6 12.Nf3 e5 13.e3 Ke7 >> 14.Qe2 >> >>I'm posting this output purely for completeness. The node counts overflowed on >>ply 31 and the PVs are probably pretty nonsensical. >> >>Andrew > > >thanks for doing it. No one has ever taken it before to this level, so even >though the chances were as you say slight, it was still imo worth doing. >there is also a record here of what you have done in case anybody wants to take >this further. > >re ricardo . imo what ever happens you have added to the body of chess >knowledge. > >If you find nothing then there is added likelihood maybe probability there is no >material gain in 34 moves. > >if you find a material gain, it can be investigated further with a regular chess >engine to make sure that the gain is genuine, and black has no compensation, >positional or otherwise. There is no mathematical proof for it but it is obvious for me that search by only material can find nothing in the near future because it cannot find nothing even with clearly simpler problems. I am practically sure that there is no material win even in 50 plies. No mathematical proof but I can be sure of things based on experience. I am also sure that white can win the following position inspite of the fact that I know no proof that there is a forced mate and even no proof that there is material win. rnb1kbnr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNBQKBNR w - - 0 1 You can claim that maybe material win of a queen is not enough to win. > > > >Is there any chance you will give uri's 6 move start a try in the future ? Thanks for the interest. Here is the position again: rnbqkbnr/pppppppp/8/8/2BPPB2/2N2N2/PPP2PPP/R2QK2R w - - 0 1 Uri
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