Author: Vincent Diepeveen
Date: 09:39:58 02/15/05
Go up one level in this thread
On February 15, 2005 at 12:06:24, Uri Blass wrote: >On February 15, 2005 at 11:25:32, Vincent Diepeveen wrote: > >>On February 14, 2005 at 18:47:22, Arturo Ochoa wrote: >> >>>On February 14, 2005 at 16:51:47, Uri Blass wrote: >>> >>>>On February 14, 2005 at 15:57:16, Arturo Ochoa wrote: >>>> >>>>>On February 14, 2005 at 11:40:12, Uri Blass wrote: >>>>> >>>>>>On February 14, 2005 at 10:56:24, Vincent Diepeveen wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>>On February 14, 2005 at 10:33:12, Jon Dart wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>A few notes from Arasan's games in CCT7: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>Game 1 against Homer, Arasan had Black in a QID that Schroer called >>>>>>>>"a super high-class line, very theoretical". Arasan was in book until >>>>>>>>move 18. It appears Homer misplayed the next few moves. Arasan's score >>>>>>>>rapidly climbed and it won. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>Arasan won easily against Alarm after it blundered here with .. Bxa3: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>[D] 3q1b1k/1p4pp/rn2rp2/BR2p3/p3N3/P2PP1P1/5P1P/1QR3K1 b - - 0 1 >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>Black is not in good shape already, but the pawn can't be taken. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>Arasan lost against Fafis. The opening was some unusual variant of the >>>>>>>>Four Knights .. Arasan was out of book at move 7. Arasan's score >>>>>>>>was positive until move 45. I haven't analyzed this yet so I am >>>>>>>>not sure where it went wrong but it lost rapidly after that. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>This game against nullmover gave me some anxious moments. 7 .. Ne8 >>>>>>>>is unusual (..c6 is more common) and Arasan was out of book after >>>>>>>>that. Black got what looked like a pretty scary k-side attack >>>>>>>>in the KID. But Arasan defended - in fact its score was never >>>>>>>>negative. Finally Arasan broke through on the q-side -- standard >>>>>>>>play in the KID - and won. The nullmover author mentioned his program >>>>>>>>had no passed pawn code and in general has a simple eval. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>[Event "?"] >>>>>>>>[Site "chessclub.com"] >>>>>>>>[Date "2005.02.13"] >>>>>>>>[Round "?"] >>>>>>>>[White "Arasan 9.0"] >>>>>>>>[Black "nullmover"] >>>>>>>>[Result "1-0"] >>>>>>>>[ECO "E87"] >>>>>>>>[WhiteElo "2594"] >>>>>>>>[BlackElo "2202"] >>>>>>>>[TimeControl "3000+3"] >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 g6 3. Nc3 Bg7 4. e4 d6 5. f3 O-O 6. Be3 e5 7. d5 Ne8 >>>>>>>>8. Qd2 f5 9. exf5 gxf5 10. Bd3 Na6 11. Nge2 Nb4 12. O-O f4 13. Bf2 >>>>>>>>Nxd3 14. Qxd3 Rf5 15. Ne4 Rh5 16. b4 Rh6 17. Rfe1 Rg6 18. Kh1 Nf6 >>>>>>>>19. N2c3 Nxe4 20. Nxe4 Bf5 21. Rg1 Kh8 22. a4 Qe7 23. c5 dxc5 >>>>>>>>24. bxc5 Rg8 25. d6 Qf7 26. Rad1 Rh6 27. Rge1 cxd6 28. cxd6 b6 >>>>>>>>29. Qd5 Be6 30. Qd2 Bf8 31. Qc3 Qg7 32. g4 Rh3 33. g5 Bg4 34. Rd3 Bf5 >>>>>>>>35. a5 Rh5 36. Rd5 Bxe4 37. Rxe5 Qf7 38. R5xe4+ Bg7 39. Qc6 Rxg5 >>>>>>>>40. Re8 Rg6 41. axb6 axb6 42. Bxb6 Qa2 43. Rxg8+ Kxg8 44. Re8+ >>>>>>>> 1-0 {nullmover resigns} >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>Against Pharaon, Arasan played a reasonable variant of the Slav and >>>>>>>>was ok for a long time. Finally at this point Pharaon played Bh6: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>[D] q6k/3r1p2/p4Pp1/1pRn3p/3PQ3/P6P/1P1B4/6K1 w - - 0 1 >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>and then posted the Bishop on g7. Neither Arasan nor Crafty would play >>>>>>>>Bh6 at the tournament time level on the hardware I have, but Crafty >>>>>>>>does eventually fail high on it, with a score of +1.7, so this may >>>>>>>>have been the decisive move. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>I wasn't watching for a while, but the next time I looked Pharaon was up >>>>>>>>a Knight--not quite sure how that happened, but seems like it found a >>>>>>>>nice tactic. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>Pharaon was strong even before its recent version update and now it >>>>>>>>is really formidable. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>In the Chompster game, 37 .. a4 by Chompster was a bad mistake, >>>>>>>>gifting Arasan with an outside passer: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>[D] 2q1r1k1/5pp1/5bp1/p7/4PQ2/1Br5/P4RPP/5R1K b - - 0 1 >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>But the game got into a bishop of opposite colors ending and was >>>>>>>>drawn. I actually made the draw manually, which brought a protest >>>>>>>>from sfarrell: he is right that under the rules this should not >>>>>>>>have been done without the TD's consent. It seems several programs >>>>>>>>broke this rule in this round. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>I was disappointed to lose the last game against cEng (witchess). It >>>>>>>>had a very unusual opening: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>[Event "?"] >>>>>>>>[Site "chessclub.com"] >>>>>>>>[Date "2005.02.13"] >>>>>>>>[Round "?"] >>>>>>>>[White "witchess"] >>>>>>>>[Black "Arasan 9.0"] >>>>>>>>[Result "1-0"] >>>>>>>>[ECO "C28"] >>>>>>>>[WhiteElo "2397"] >>>>>>>>[BlackElo "2594"] >>>>>>>>[TimeControl "3000+3"] >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>1. e4 e5 2. Nc3 Nf6 3. Bc4 Nc6 4. Nf3 Nxe4 5. Nxe4 d5 6. Bd3 dxe4 >>>>>>>>7. Bxe4 Ne7 8. c3 f5 9. Bc2 e4 10. Ne5 Qd5 11. f4 exf3 12. Nxf3 Qe6+ >>>>>>>>13. Kf2 Qb6+ 14. d4 Be6 15. Ba4+ c6 16. Re1 Bd5 17. Bb3 O-O-O 18. Bg5 >>>>>>>>Qc7 19. Bxd5 cxd5 20. Qe2 Qb6 21. c4 Rd7 22. cxd5 Kb8 23. Qe5+ Ka8 >>>>>>>>24. d6 Rxd6 25. Bxe7 Bxe7 26. Qxe7 Rc8 27. Kg1 Rg8 28. Rac1 Rdd8 >>>>>>>> 1-0 {ArasanX resigns} >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>I analyzed this overnight with Crafty but didn't find where Arasan >>>>>>>>went wrong. I didn't like 7.. Ne7 and 7.. Bd6 seems to be better - >>>>>>>>this has occurred in a few games with this line. After Ne7, Arasan >>>>>>>>had its Bishop locked in and failed to develop it. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>I watched this game live and found it a very strong game from witchess. >>>>>>>Especially because it plays without book. Let's be honest there. That's 700 >>>>>>>rating points (a real strong book). >>>>>> >>>>>>How did you get that estimate? >>>>>> >>>>>>Do you have one tournament when a program with no book performed 700 elo worse >>>>>>than the same program with book? >>>>>> >>>>>>Uri >>>>> >>>>>Well.... I love that you continue missing the importance of the opening book. It >>>>>will mean more easy points for your opponents! >>>>> >>>>>I have been reading your same "cantaleta" (*) for years and I have seen how >>>>>Movei has been beated by books well tuned. >>>>> >>>>>Hopefully, you understand that in 20 years. Who knows...... >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>Arturo. >>>> >>>>Movei is weak relative to the top programs also when both programs use the same >>>>external book so I do not see how the results of Movei prove something about the >>>>importance of book. >>> >>>Of course, the results doesnt prove anything because your book was a random >>>thing combined with the Movei blunders caused what you know. >>> >>>> >>>>You may be able to tune your book against movei's public book but if I come >>>>to the tournament with new book you will not be able to plan openings that >>>>moveidoes not understand. >>> >>>I did not tune the book against Movei.... I tune a book for a specific engine. >>>Anthony accepted my help and I did my best in 2 short months. Of course, how >>>could you understand that? >>> >>> >>>> >>>>Note that in the last tournament I used Dan Corbit's book in rounds 1-6 and got >>>>4.5 out of 6, but after movei got out of book against averno >>>>with 1.d4 Nf6 c4 e5 and got negative evaluation some moves later I decided that >>>>I do not like Corbit's book and replaced the book by the public book(still small >>>>book but at least movei is not out of book after 1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 e5). >>>> >>> >>>You continue missing what I have repeated you over the last 3 years. They are >>>random books. They are not tuned hy hand. Anything can happen. Again, how could >>>I explain you that? Three years in this forum and you repeat the same >>>_cantaleta_ :) >>> >>> >>>>Maybe it was a mistake because Movei lost the last 3 games but I do not think >>>>that part of the opponents tuned against Movei's public book(after all they >>>>cannot know that I will use it and I do not think that it is so important for >>>>them to win to waste many hours not only against movei's book but also against >>>>book of other programs because movei has no special importance) >>>> >>>>Uri >>> >>>Movei lost by itself. No for any tuned book against Movei. Zappa outsearched >>>Movei in tha game and played a better game. Movei made all kind of mistakes in >>>that game. It was not any book just the Movei game. >> >>Exactly, i saw Uri however blame the hardware of the opponent, who by the way >>has lower clocked processors than Movei uses. >> >>Vincent > >hardware was one of the advantage of zappa in the meaning that >zappa on movei's hardware is weaker. > >zappa is simply better than movei but I think that in the future I will never >use the public book in these events. > >It is probably only bad luck but after replacing Dan Corbit's book by movei's >public book before the game against zappa movei lost every game. > >Uri So you complain about book meanwhile saying book is not important?
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