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Subject: Re: Delirious?

Author: blass uri

Date: 13:24:47 02/06/99

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On February 06, 1999 at 16:15:14, Paulo Soares wrote:

>On February 06, 1999 at 14:49:11, Don Dailey wrote:
>
>>On February 06, 1999 at 12:48:09, Paulo Soares wrote:
>>
>>>Could a chess player with rating FIDE below of the 2000
>>>points ELO, win Kasparov with the aid of a program line top
>>>running on a PC(for example, a PII-450 with 120Mb RAM), in one
>>>match 2/40?
>>>	I believe that yes, it will be that I am being delirious?
>>>	Already had one match in these circumstances?
>>>
>>>Best regards,
>>>
>>>Paulo Soares, from Brazil.
>>
>>A chess player with a FIDE below 2000 can beat Kasparov without
>>any help at all.  The question is not IF he can beat Kasparov,
>>but HOW OFTEN.   The whole rating system is based on probabilites
>>and it's possible for a player of any rating (yes, even a raw
>>beginner who just learned the rules) to beat any player (even
>>Kasparov on his best day!)   Of course the probability in this
>>extreme example is incredibly low, so low in fact we can say
>>for all PRACTICAL purposes that it's impossible.
>>
>>Suppose you play a random legal move?  There is a probability
>>around 1/20 or so that you will pick A BEST move.   I'm assuming
>>that in many positions there are more than 1 best move, but the
>>branching factor is approximately 40.    For Kasparov
>>in any given position, there is a probability of perhaps .95
>>that he will play a best move.  Since Kasparov probably plays
>>far from perfect chess I'm guessing at .95 figure.   The odds
>>that you will RANDOMLY put together enough best moves to play
>>a perfect game are extremely low.  But it's a lot more complicated
>>than that.  You don't have to put together a perfect game (since
>>he probably won't either.)   Also,  it may be good enough to
>>occasionally pick a good or very good move without it necessarily
>>being the "best" move.
>>
>>We don't have to guess however.  Given 2 players with 2 ratings,
>>we can calculate the winning expectancy of each player.  You
>>will find that a 1900 player has a tiny but non-zero chance of
>>beating Kasparov.
>>
>>In almost every tournament I have ever attended, there will be some
>>wild upset, crossing several hundred rating points.  There is HUGE
>>difference between 1900 and 2800 though, the odds are extreme in this
>>case.
>>
>>Probably the question you meant to ask is if there is a "reasonable"
>>chance you (or a 2000 player) could beat Kasparov with help from
>>a computer.   My personal opinion is that your chances are probably
>>lower than letting the computer play the game!   I have played
>>games of consultation and non-consultation chess with other players
>>in the past and it's not always clear if the team is better than
>>the best player.  I think it has a lot to do with the personality
>>and dynamics of the team.  If the weaker player has the strongest
>>personality, the game will tend to go that players way.  The stronger
>>player will try to conform to the weaker players style and the
>>team will be weaker than the strong player.
>>
>>- Don
>
>
>
>Don,
>
>        You placed the question of a form well clearer, on writting about
>probabilities, I am in agreement.
>	I disagree when you compare games in team with the type of game that
>we are talking.  We are talking about "manmachine" against Kasparov, and in
>this game it does not exist more of one personality of each side.
>	Modifying the question, I would like to know which the probability of a
>player with one rating FIDE around 2000 ELO, helped for a PC, to equal
>Kasparov? If the reply will be:  " the probability is very small ",
>I changes the question: which would be then, in his opinion, the necessary ELO
>so that a player, assisted for a PC, equaled Kasparov?
>	Thanks for having placed the question of clearer form.


I believe the necessary ELO is something between 2400 and 2700

Uri
>
>
>Paulo Soares, from Brazil.



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