Author: Uri Blass
Date: 02:17:25 05/08/05
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On May 08, 2005 at 03:35:49, Ricardo Gibert wrote: >On May 07, 2005 at 09:14:27, Uri Blass wrote: > >>On May 07, 2005 at 05:46:32, Claude Le Page wrote: >> >>>I suggest another method: >>>consider the famous game Atars-Tomson (it is in every database) >>>1 e4 e5 2 Nf3 f5 3 Bc4 fxe4 4 Nxe5 Qg5 5 d4 Qxg2 6 Qh5+ g6 7 Bf7+ Kd8 >>>8 Bxg6 Qxh1+ 9 Ke2 c6 10 Nc3 Kc7 11 Bf4 Qxa1 12 Nxd7+!! (every "good" engine >>>finds it)Kxd7 13 Qf5+ Kd8 14 Qxf8+ Kd7 15 Bf5# >>>The interesting point is elsewhere:On 12...Kd8 (best!)there is #14 (generally >>>announced as #18 ) >>>There are at least 3 mates completely different: that of Junior7 and that of >>>Shredder9 have nothing in common (although both are #14 announced as#18) >>>It would be interesting to compare on his position PVs of Patriot , Toga and so >>>on >>>As I am not Programmer , Just Analyst ( in my previous job as in my chess life ) >>>this method is easier for me >>>Surely , the position I quoted is not unique , and you could easily find other >>>ones >> >>What you suggest is not another method. >> >>Of course analyzing positions can practically help to prove that 2 engines are >>clones and I think that the test to detect clones should include also secret >>positions to see if the move of the program is the same as another open source >>program. >> >>I think that it is not productive to talk here about the exact methods to >>discover clones because it can help cloners and it is better to talk about it by >>email. >> >>Uri > >How about a dozen test positions where the position is blocked and one move is >as good as another. Only a clone would show the same PV in all or most of the >test positions. Of course you can use them but I do not think that they are enough(see later). > >Such positions would be more effective than the usual test positions that often >have just one line that is definitely best. I did not suggest to use positions from known test suites and of course positions when there are many good moves can be productive to detect clones. The idea is to generate set of positions when every 2 engines show different output in them when clones shows similiar output. The problem with your test is that clones may show also different output and you may get different output if you do small changes in the piece square table of fruit. Uri
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