Author: Rolf Tueschen
Date: 15:41:14 05/10/05
Go up one level in this thread
On May 10, 2005 at 15:49:17, Alex Schmidt wrote: >Hello, > >seems like you missed the point of the accuse: > >http://www.uciengines.de/UCI-Engines/Patriot/Patriot2/patriot2.html > >It shows only two examples but you have the same behaviour in all positions. > >In the first seconds you can see a relation between Toga and Patriot in the >score, depth, seldepth and pv. Later the score changes what can have different >reasons. > >This is not the behaviour of a few lines of Toga code, this is a behaviour of >slightly changed Toga code. > >Though this is enough for me to be sure for 100% that Patriot 2 is a Toga clone >there are even better evidences. > >You can be sure, Rolf, that I would never publish such an accuse without to be >sure for more than 100%. Dear Alex! I have no reason to have great respect for you. I got the impression that you are a real expert in computerchess. For all you are much better qualified than me. This is my forword and the essence won't change after what I'll say right now! Your belief in your 100% or even more [tongue in cheek] certainty is unjustified. I take for granted that I have the allowance to make a short quote from your own webpage which goes like this: [QUOTE from what I take as Alex' webpage:] 250398<1:Patriot 2.0 beta UCI by Vladimir Yelin 250516>1:uci 250566<1:info string Knowledge database file not found! 250567<1:info string Learning function now is disabled! 250568<1:id name Patriot 2.0 250568<1:id author Vladimir Yelin 250570<1:option name Hash type spin default 100 min 1 max 1024 250571<1:option name Ponder type check default false 250572<1:uciok 255450<2:Toga II 0.93 UCI based on Fruit 2.0 255581>2:uci 255631<2:id name Toga II 0.93 255631<2:id author Thomas 255632<2:option name Hash type spin default 100 min 1 max 1024 255632<2:option name Ponder type check default false 255633<2:option name SingleReply Extension type check default true 255633<2:uciok What you can see here is the startup of the engines. UCI engines have the ability to show adjustable options to the GUI. The order and values are not at all ruled by the UCI protocol. This few lines are enough for me to be sure for 99% that one engine is a clone of the other engine. 99% is not too high because 99% of the chessengines have a default value for hashtablesize of <16 or devideable with 8 but never 100. Out of that we have the same min and max values and the same ponder option line. Most new engines don’t have the ponder option line at all because pondering works also without it. Don’t look at missing or additional lines, it’s easy for the cloner to change them. [end of quote] Alex, I'm not into computerchess programming, but I'm used to read science. With that experience I know something about a presentation of facts. This here is NOT the slightest proof for Patriot 2 being a clone of Toga. Not at all. To discuss that we must come in agreement where the crucial part is that would mean clone or not-clone. All what I know of science is that your quotes here from the output of Toga and then Patriot 2 are no proof at all for a clone of the whole Patriot 2. Your argument, that the UCI protocol doesn't define how you introduce your prog. That might be true. But if you follow a same routine in your start you don't become guilty of making a clone. That is what I think. Readers may think different things. I would be pleased if you could justify your conclusion/theory that this introduction above is a proof for Patriot 2 being a clone. Afterwards we can continue to debate the rest of your theory. But this beginning here is crucial for me. With all due respect, Rolf > >Why it is possible that Patriot 1.3.0 is OK and Patriot 2 is a clone? Well, read >the comments at the bottom of my page. > >Just one question: > >You blame me because of my public accuse of Vladimir but you don't care to >accuse the distributor. Do _you_ have an evidence? Did _you_ contact him by >mail? > >No, you don't even know the details... Strange, isn't it? > >Best, >Alex p.S. The question of the distribution is soemething different and we should discuss it at the end of the debate if Patriot 2 ist a Toga clone.
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