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Subject: Re: Is Possible a Challenger in Playchess Dr Robert Hyatt Crafty and Qua

Author: Robert Hyatt

Date: 13:16:06 05/30/05

Go up one level in this thread


On May 30, 2005 at 05:45:05, Andrew Dados wrote:

>On May 30, 2005 at 05:10:52, Matthew Hull wrote:
>
>>On May 30, 2005 at 03:24:45, Uri Blass wrote:
>>
>>>On May 29, 2005 at 23:23:50, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>>
>>>>On May 29, 2005 at 06:57:36, Vasik Rajlich wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On May 28, 2005 at 12:41:24, Vasik Rajlich wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>On May 28, 2005 at 11:18:05, Matthew Hull wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>On May 28, 2005 at 10:46:48, Vasik Rajlich wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>On May 27, 2005 at 18:02:25, Uri Blass wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>On May 27, 2005 at 17:54:57, Pablo Ignacio Restrepo wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>Hello Thomas
>>>>>>>>>>I would like to see playing into playchess engines room, to Dr. Robert Hyatt
>>>>>>>>>>engines.
>>>>>>>>>>For me is a problem to play into ICC because I have not premoves into ICC, and
>>>>>>>>>>as a guest if there are disconnection immediately I will be lost.
>>>>>>>>>>I would like to play a challenger (just for fun and for testing engines to be
>>>>>>>>>>better engines and of course me too) into playchess against Crafty from Dr
>>>>>>>>>>Robert Hyatt and against Quark, if could be possible into main room better for
>>>>>>>>>>everyone.
>>>>>>>>>>Unique way for me to discover new ways will be playing in long time controls.
>>>>>>>>>>This has been a dream for me Thomas.
>>>>>>>>>>Best regard,
>>>>>>>>>>Pablo
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>If I understand correctly
>>>>>>>>>I understand that engines lose on time automatically at move 257 in playchess
>>>>>>>>>and that this problem is not engine problem but interface problem.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>I think that if this problem is not fixed then engines suffer from unfair
>>>>>>>>>conditions in playchess.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Uri
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>It seems that maybe you don't understand the technique.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>A human with pre-move (and just enough lag) will always win a closed position on
>>>>>>>>time if the game is long enough - regardless of time control (as long as there
>>>>>>>>is no increment), and regardless of anything that happens on move 257.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Bob Hyatt says crafty will never lose on time this way.  So far, Pablo has not
>>>>>>>been able to win against crafty on ICC with this technique.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Vas
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Let me show you how to do it :)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Vas
>>>>>
>>>>>Ok - crafty is damn hard to provoke into closing the position and I didn't have
>>>>>the patience for a zillion games.
>>>>>
>>>>>Still - the question is, how many moves will crafty play in a 3-minute game
>>>>>before running out of time. There is of course some limit, even if it's 1000. A
>>>>>pre-mover can play an infinite amount.
>>>>>
>>>>>Vas
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>For stress-testing crafty, I play "game in 1 second" matches.  :)  I have seen
>>>>games go over 300 moves.  My timer resolution is 1ms, which means that it should
>>>>be able to make 1000 moves in a single second.  I think that will do.
>>>>
>>>>By the way, you should play crafty and use pre-move.  I _know_ what will happen.
>>>> You get into a rhythm, crafty gets into a rhythm, you both move instantly.
>>>>Until the 50-move rule causes crafty to offer a free pawn or something, which
>>>>you miss taking because of using pre-move.  And you then die.
>>>>
>>>>Seen it happen _many_ times...
>>>
>>>The opponent can stop using the premove after 45 moves with no capture.
>>>
>>>It is of course no way to beat Crafty on time in ICC.
>>>The problem may be in playchess because if I understand correctly programs
>>>lose automatically 0.1 second on the clock even if they move immediatly.
>>
>>
>>If true -- combined with the crassness of it's 300 move limitation -- it is the
>>hallmark of yet another software company that should have so little care for the
>>sanctity of reality, undoing the diligence of real programmers in an attempt to
>>prop up it's own lack of programming diligence.  It reminds one of the
>>market-hording bloody-mindedness of DOSian Microsoft.  For how many decades were
>>we tortured with that backward and perverse architecture?  The words "bad" and
>>"wrong" spring immediately to mind.
>>
>>
>>>
>>>Uri
>
>Doode relax. Same holds true for ICC. 0.1 sec is minimum you get charged per
>move. on FICS you can get 0.0 sec/move is you set 'minmovetime' to 0 and
>opponent has it, too.
>
>BTW, while Bob may have his crafty setup correctly and not lose on time, most
>crafties I've seen on servers and one on my local winboard will lose on time
>quite often.
>
>-Andrew-


What could one do to cause this?  Way too much hash to cause paging?  Not
running timestamp (most likely the cause) so that lag burns clock time?




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