Author: Robert Hyatt
Date: 13:16:06 05/30/05
Go up one level in this thread
On May 30, 2005 at 05:45:05, Andrew Dados wrote: >On May 30, 2005 at 05:10:52, Matthew Hull wrote: > >>On May 30, 2005 at 03:24:45, Uri Blass wrote: >> >>>On May 29, 2005 at 23:23:50, Robert Hyatt wrote: >>> >>>>On May 29, 2005 at 06:57:36, Vasik Rajlich wrote: >>>> >>>>>On May 28, 2005 at 12:41:24, Vasik Rajlich wrote: >>>>> >>>>>>On May 28, 2005 at 11:18:05, Matthew Hull wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>>On May 28, 2005 at 10:46:48, Vasik Rajlich wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>On May 27, 2005 at 18:02:25, Uri Blass wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>On May 27, 2005 at 17:54:57, Pablo Ignacio Restrepo wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>Hello Thomas >>>>>>>>>>I would like to see playing into playchess engines room, to Dr. Robert Hyatt >>>>>>>>>>engines. >>>>>>>>>>For me is a problem to play into ICC because I have not premoves into ICC, and >>>>>>>>>>as a guest if there are disconnection immediately I will be lost. >>>>>>>>>>I would like to play a challenger (just for fun and for testing engines to be >>>>>>>>>>better engines and of course me too) into playchess against Crafty from Dr >>>>>>>>>>Robert Hyatt and against Quark, if could be possible into main room better for >>>>>>>>>>everyone. >>>>>>>>>>Unique way for me to discover new ways will be playing in long time controls. >>>>>>>>>>This has been a dream for me Thomas. >>>>>>>>>>Best regard, >>>>>>>>>>Pablo >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>If I understand correctly >>>>>>>>>I understand that engines lose on time automatically at move 257 in playchess >>>>>>>>>and that this problem is not engine problem but interface problem. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>I think that if this problem is not fixed then engines suffer from unfair >>>>>>>>>conditions in playchess. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>Uri >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>It seems that maybe you don't understand the technique. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>A human with pre-move (and just enough lag) will always win a closed position on >>>>>>>>time if the game is long enough - regardless of time control (as long as there >>>>>>>>is no increment), and regardless of anything that happens on move 257. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Bob Hyatt says crafty will never lose on time this way. So far, Pablo has not >>>>>>>been able to win against crafty on ICC with this technique. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>Vas >>>>>> >>>>>>Let me show you how to do it :) >>>>>> >>>>>>Vas >>>>> >>>>>Ok - crafty is damn hard to provoke into closing the position and I didn't have >>>>>the patience for a zillion games. >>>>> >>>>>Still - the question is, how many moves will crafty play in a 3-minute game >>>>>before running out of time. There is of course some limit, even if it's 1000. A >>>>>pre-mover can play an infinite amount. >>>>> >>>>>Vas >>>> >>>> >>>>For stress-testing crafty, I play "game in 1 second" matches. :) I have seen >>>>games go over 300 moves. My timer resolution is 1ms, which means that it should >>>>be able to make 1000 moves in a single second. I think that will do. >>>> >>>>By the way, you should play crafty and use pre-move. I _know_ what will happen. >>>> You get into a rhythm, crafty gets into a rhythm, you both move instantly. >>>>Until the 50-move rule causes crafty to offer a free pawn or something, which >>>>you miss taking because of using pre-move. And you then die. >>>> >>>>Seen it happen _many_ times... >>> >>>The opponent can stop using the premove after 45 moves with no capture. >>> >>>It is of course no way to beat Crafty on time in ICC. >>>The problem may be in playchess because if I understand correctly programs >>>lose automatically 0.1 second on the clock even if they move immediatly. >> >> >>If true -- combined with the crassness of it's 300 move limitation -- it is the >>hallmark of yet another software company that should have so little care for the >>sanctity of reality, undoing the diligence of real programmers in an attempt to >>prop up it's own lack of programming diligence. It reminds one of the >>market-hording bloody-mindedness of DOSian Microsoft. For how many decades were >>we tortured with that backward and perverse architecture? The words "bad" and >>"wrong" spring immediately to mind. >> >> >>> >>>Uri > >Doode relax. Same holds true for ICC. 0.1 sec is minimum you get charged per >move. on FICS you can get 0.0 sec/move is you set 'minmovetime' to 0 and >opponent has it, too. > >BTW, while Bob may have his crafty setup correctly and not lose on time, most >crafties I've seen on servers and one on my local winboard will lose on time >quite often. > >-Andrew- What could one do to cause this? Way too much hash to cause paging? Not running timestamp (most likely the cause) so that lag burns clock time?
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