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Subject: Re: Is Possible a Challenger in Playchess Dr Robert Hyatt Crafty and Quark ?

Author: Thomas Mayer

Date: 13:38:02 05/30/05

Go up one level in this thread


Hi Vasik,

On May 30, 2005 at 15:50:44, Vasik Rajlich wrote:

>On May 30, 2005 at 05:20:10, Uri Blass wrote:
>
>>On May 30, 2005 at 05:09:18, Vasik Rajlich wrote:
>>
>>>On May 29, 2005 at 23:26:29, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>>
>>>>On May 29, 2005 at 11:17:27, Vasik Rajlich wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On May 29, 2005 at 08:45:21, Uri Blass wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>On May 29, 2005 at 06:57:36, Vasik Rajlich wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>On May 28, 2005 at 12:41:24, Vasik Rajlich wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>On May 28, 2005 at 11:18:05, Matthew Hull wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>On May 28, 2005 at 10:46:48, Vasik Rajlich wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>On May 27, 2005 at 18:02:25, Uri Blass wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>On May 27, 2005 at 17:54:57, Pablo Ignacio Restrepo wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>Hello Thomas
>>>>>>>>>>>>I would like to see playing into playchess engines room, to Dr. Robert Hyatt
>>>>>>>>>>>>engines.
>>>>>>>>>>>>For me is a problem to play into ICC because I have not premoves into ICC, and
>>>>>>>>>>>>as a guest if there are disconnection immediately I will be lost.
>>>>>>>>>>>>I would like to play a challenger (just for fun and for testing engines to be
>>>>>>>>>>>>better engines and of course me too) into playchess against Crafty from Dr
>>>>>>>>>>>>Robert Hyatt and against Quark, if could be possible into main room better for
>>>>>>>>>>>>everyone.
>>>>>>>>>>>>Unique way for me to discover new ways will be playing in long time controls.
>>>>>>>>>>>>This has been a dream for me Thomas.
>>>>>>>>>>>>Best regard,
>>>>>>>>>>>>Pablo
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>If I understand correctly
>>>>>>>>>>>I understand that engines lose on time automatically at move 257 in playchess
>>>>>>>>>>>and that this problem is not engine problem but interface problem.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>I think that if this problem is not fixed then engines suffer from unfair
>>>>>>>>>>>conditions in playchess.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>Uri
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>It seems that maybe you don't understand the technique.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>A human with pre-move (and just enough lag) will always win a closed position on
>>>>>>>>>>time if the game is long enough - regardless of time control (as long as there
>>>>>>>>>>is no increment), and regardless of anything that happens on move 257.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Bob Hyatt says crafty will never lose on time this way.  So far, Pablo has not
>>>>>>>>>been able to win against crafty on ICC with this technique.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>Vas
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Let me show you how to do it :)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Vas
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Ok - crafty is damn hard to provoke into closing the position and I didn't have
>>>>>>>the patience for a zillion games.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Still - the question is, how many moves will crafty play in a 3-minute game
>>>>>>>before running out of time. There is of course some limit, even if it's 1000.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>If it is 1000 then the question is if it is possible to get a game of 1000 game
>>>>>>against the program.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> A
>>>>>>>pre-mover can play an infinite amount.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Vas
>>>>>>
>>>>>>No
>>>>>>
>>>>>>After 50 moves with no capture and conversion the program claims a draw and
>>>>>>there is some practical limit for the number of moves in the game.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I doubt if humans can play 1000 moves against a program without getting some
>>>>>>winning position in the process and without draw by the 50 move rule.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>That doesn't contradict anything I said. The point is that you can't say that
>>>>>Crafty will never lose on time. You can only say that in a 3 0 game, Crafty can
>>>>>play X moves, and that X is usually going to be enough.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>In theory, crafty can play 180,000 moves in a 3 0 game.  In reality it won't,
>>>>because it will use more time up front.  But in that last second of time, it can
>>>>play 1000 moves.  Pre-move is going to get you absolutely killed there, for
>>>>reasons I have already stated.
>>>>
>>>>We can set up a guest account test on ICC for you to try if you want.  I already
>>>>know the result.  _nobody_ tries that type of play against Crafty any longer.
>>>>Several used to.
>>>
>>>Ok, I'd like to try it. (Probably you're right but this way I can say that I
>>>tested it.)
>>>
>>>Can I start from the following position:
>>>
>>>[D] r1bqk1br/1p1p1p1p/pPpPpPpP/R7/3B1B2/8/P1P1P1P1/3K3R w kq -
>>>
>>>At 3 0?
>>
>>This position is illegal.
>>
>>There is no way that the black bishop could go to g8.
>>
>>Uri
>
>I forgot to mention that it's from a Fischer random game.
>
>:)

which is not possible either -> in FRC the bishops are always from different
colors in the initial position. So let's say it's from a Shuffle Chess game...
:)

Greets, Thomas



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