Author: Thomas Mayer
Date: 13:38:02 05/30/05
Go up one level in this thread
Hi Vasik, On May 30, 2005 at 15:50:44, Vasik Rajlich wrote: >On May 30, 2005 at 05:20:10, Uri Blass wrote: > >>On May 30, 2005 at 05:09:18, Vasik Rajlich wrote: >> >>>On May 29, 2005 at 23:26:29, Robert Hyatt wrote: >>> >>>>On May 29, 2005 at 11:17:27, Vasik Rajlich wrote: >>>> >>>>>On May 29, 2005 at 08:45:21, Uri Blass wrote: >>>>> >>>>>>On May 29, 2005 at 06:57:36, Vasik Rajlich wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>>On May 28, 2005 at 12:41:24, Vasik Rajlich wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>On May 28, 2005 at 11:18:05, Matthew Hull wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>On May 28, 2005 at 10:46:48, Vasik Rajlich wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>On May 27, 2005 at 18:02:25, Uri Blass wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>On May 27, 2005 at 17:54:57, Pablo Ignacio Restrepo wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>Hello Thomas >>>>>>>>>>>>I would like to see playing into playchess engines room, to Dr. Robert Hyatt >>>>>>>>>>>>engines. >>>>>>>>>>>>For me is a problem to play into ICC because I have not premoves into ICC, and >>>>>>>>>>>>as a guest if there are disconnection immediately I will be lost. >>>>>>>>>>>>I would like to play a challenger (just for fun and for testing engines to be >>>>>>>>>>>>better engines and of course me too) into playchess against Crafty from Dr >>>>>>>>>>>>Robert Hyatt and against Quark, if could be possible into main room better for >>>>>>>>>>>>everyone. >>>>>>>>>>>>Unique way for me to discover new ways will be playing in long time controls. >>>>>>>>>>>>This has been a dream for me Thomas. >>>>>>>>>>>>Best regard, >>>>>>>>>>>>Pablo >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>If I understand correctly >>>>>>>>>>>I understand that engines lose on time automatically at move 257 in playchess >>>>>>>>>>>and that this problem is not engine problem but interface problem. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>I think that if this problem is not fixed then engines suffer from unfair >>>>>>>>>>>conditions in playchess. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>Uri >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>It seems that maybe you don't understand the technique. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>A human with pre-move (and just enough lag) will always win a closed position on >>>>>>>>>>time if the game is long enough - regardless of time control (as long as there >>>>>>>>>>is no increment), and regardless of anything that happens on move 257. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>Bob Hyatt says crafty will never lose on time this way. So far, Pablo has not >>>>>>>>>been able to win against crafty on ICC with this technique. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>Vas >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>Let me show you how to do it :) >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>Vas >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Ok - crafty is damn hard to provoke into closing the position and I didn't have >>>>>>>the patience for a zillion games. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Still - the question is, how many moves will crafty play in a 3-minute game >>>>>>>before running out of time. There is of course some limit, even if it's 1000. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>If it is 1000 then the question is if it is possible to get a game of 1000 game >>>>>>against the program. >>>>>> >>>>>> A >>>>>>>pre-mover can play an infinite amount. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Vas >>>>>> >>>>>>No >>>>>> >>>>>>After 50 moves with no capture and conversion the program claims a draw and >>>>>>there is some practical limit for the number of moves in the game. >>>>>> >>>>>>I doubt if humans can play 1000 moves against a program without getting some >>>>>>winning position in the process and without draw by the 50 move rule. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>That doesn't contradict anything I said. The point is that you can't say that >>>>>Crafty will never lose on time. You can only say that in a 3 0 game, Crafty can >>>>>play X moves, and that X is usually going to be enough. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>In theory, crafty can play 180,000 moves in a 3 0 game. In reality it won't, >>>>because it will use more time up front. But in that last second of time, it can >>>>play 1000 moves. Pre-move is going to get you absolutely killed there, for >>>>reasons I have already stated. >>>> >>>>We can set up a guest account test on ICC for you to try if you want. I already >>>>know the result. _nobody_ tries that type of play against Crafty any longer. >>>>Several used to. >>> >>>Ok, I'd like to try it. (Probably you're right but this way I can say that I >>>tested it.) >>> >>>Can I start from the following position: >>> >>>[D] r1bqk1br/1p1p1p1p/pPpPpPpP/R7/3B1B2/8/P1P1P1P1/3K3R w kq - >>> >>>At 3 0? >> >>This position is illegal. >> >>There is no way that the black bishop could go to g8. >> >>Uri > >I forgot to mention that it's from a Fischer random game. > >:) which is not possible either -> in FRC the bishops are always from different colors in the initial position. So let's say it's from a Shuffle Chess game... :) Greets, Thomas
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