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Subject: Re: General Tips and Tricks for debugging a search.

Author: Uri Blass

Date: 15:46:53 06/16/05

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On June 16, 2005 at 18:27:51, Christopher Conkie wrote:

>Can you tell me why it is so hard for a programmer who knows what they are
>doing. Is it so hard to be able to code in their engine, that a side already in
>check from a piece that could not have got to that square to give check is
>illegal?

There are many different cases
fixing one problem may not be hard but there are many different problems

see the following:
Illegal pawn structure:

[D]8/8/8/8/k7/P7/PP6/K7 w - - 0 1


illegal position in normal chess because the bishop cannot go to d1.

[D]8/8/8/8/3k4/2p1p3/2P1P3/3BK3 w - - 0 1

pawn structure that is impossible with 16 black pieces

[D]rnbqkbnr/pppppppp/8/8/8/1P6/1PPPPPPP/RNBQKBNR w KQkq - 0 1

pawn structure that is impossible with 15 black pieces
[D]rnbqkbnr/ppp1pppp/8/3P4/8/7P/PPPP1P1P/RNBQKBNR w KQkq - 0 1
>
>I don't believe it.
>
>The beauty of true standalone chess engines (exe's) is that you don't need a GUI
>to play them or for that matter to implement the rules.

All the position that I give are illegal but I think that all GUI except them.

>
>Think about it this way. Do you think that the Fritz interface is optimised for
>the Fritz engine?

I do not think that it is important except book and learning that is for all the
chessbase engines.

>
>How much is the engine and how much is the GUI?

the gui can help in book and learning.
If you claim that it is unfair then you have a point but detecting illegal
position is not an advantage of the fritz gui.

I still think that the engine is the most important part.

>
>Guess......or find out. I have found out so far as I am concerned, or at the
>very least have a very good idea how much.
>
>Did anyone ever check the GUI? No? Is that part of the engine? Yes? Do you know
>what a GUI could do if allowed to help the engine not just with rules but
>anything else that you could imagine?

I think that it cannot help when you do nunntype tournament when engines do not
use the same book.

>
>So is it just Fritz or is it Fritz and the GUI?
>
>I think the world championship should take place in console mode. No joke, plain
>old stoic console mode. Who do think would be champion then Uri?

I think that Shredder will be the champion at console mode
Shredder does not need the chessbase GUI and has GUI of the same programmer of
the engine(SMK).
>
>The engines that I stated earlier perform when in illegal positions. They should
>not do this.
>
>Nor should anyone else's, but all data is welcome.
>
>;-)
>
>Christopher

They should not do it but it is not a problem in WCCC
Engines with bugs are allowed to play there.

Fixing these bugs is not something important for programmers who prepare for
WCCC.

Uri



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