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Subject: Re: The correlation between Standard and Chess960 is not parallel

Author: Jorge Pichard

Date: 02:30:41 06/28/05

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On June 28, 2005 at 05:07:28, Uri Blass wrote:

>On June 28, 2005 at 02:42:21, Sune Fischer wrote:
>
>>On June 28, 2005 at 02:04:27, Reinhard Scharnagl wrote:
>>
>>>On June 27, 2005 at 21:58:51, Jorge Pichard wrote:
>>>
>>>>Just because a program is strong at standard chess doesn't mean that it will be
>>>>strong at Chess960. For instance there is a noticeable difference between
>>>>standard Pharaon 3.3 and Standard Freenze, whereas according to my test,
>>>>FRC-Freenze is almost equal in strength to Chess960 Pharaon 3.3.
>>
>>I find that hard to believe, usually when things look too good to be true it's
>>because you just haven't played enough games yet... ;)
>>
>>>This is not at all surprising to me. It reflects the unability of most engines
>>>to UNDERSTAND positional implications during opening. This will be covered in
>>>traditional chess by a) opening libraries, b) optimized weights in piece type
>>>specific coordinate related bonus/malus tables.
>>>
>>>Smirf is avoiding the use of such tables to force the programmer (in that case:
>>>me) to improve the program to a better positional understanding by AVOIDING
>>>such intelligence murdering piece-coordinate 'optimized' tables, and of course
>>>by switching from huge looking-up tables corrupted chess to Chess960's freedom.
>>
>>You tell 'em Reinhard! :)
>>
>>Design philosophy or not, the question is what is it worth in real play Elo.
>>I think unfortunately not much.
>
>I agree.
>
>>
>>Of course if the engine is used to having a good book and doesn't have any
>>development terms on its own, then one could possibly be in for a grim awakening
>>in FRC.
>
>I think that search dominates here and special developments terms for the
>opening are not very important(I will be surprised if special knowledge for the
>opening gives more than 100 elo in FRC and I expect it even to be not more than
>50 elo).

Are you implying that in standard chess Shredder 8 without an opening book can
still beat Fritz 8 with its own opening book? Here is the Rating List of
Fefruary, which indicates a difference of 50 rating points.

Jorge

>
>Usually a program that plays the middle game well will also be good in Chess960
>because even if it gets inferior positions it can often get out of them and win
>later.
>
>Uri



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