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Subject: Re: Republica Argentina Chess Masters (Shredder)

Author: Drexel,Michael

Date: 23:17:15 07/26/05

Go up one level in this thread


On July 27, 2005 at 01:49:21, Uri Blass wrote:

>On July 27, 2005 at 01:08:35, Drexel,Michael wrote:
>
>>This position is not relevant at all. Black was completely lost after the simple
>>46...Bxg4. I don´t need an engine for that. The move is pretty obvious. The top
>>engines Shreddder and  Fritz were useless anyway in this position as they don´t
>>have a clue.
>
>I agree that 46...Bxg4 seems to me as the best move without engines when after
>g2 Nxh2 white get an open file for exchange when after 46...Bxg4 white need to
>be a piece down for the open file.

Exactly, I can not understand the move 46...g2? from the GM at all.
I think that much weaker players (who are maybe not able to get into such a
position) would play Bxg4 quickly. If white sacrifices the piece he has still
the bad bishop at e2, is a piece down and has no immediate threats.

>I do not think that engines do not have a clue here.

I didn´t say all engines do not have a clue. Fruit obviously has better
evaluation for this position.

Michael

>Fruit suggests 46...Bxg4 and gives a big advantage for black(more than a pawn
>after a short time)
>
>It seems that Shredder has less knowledge in the evaluation than Fruit because
>Shredder cannot see the big advantage of black and believes that the open h file
>is enough compensation for the piece after 46...Bxg4 47.Nxh2 gxh2 48.Rxh2 Bc8
>
>SHREDDER - Garcia Palermo,C, Mercosur Cup 2005
>[D]2b2r2/2p2rkn/1p1p4/pP1Pp1q1/P3P1N1/2Q2Pp1/2P1B2p/1KR2N1R b - - 0 1
>
>Analysis by Fruit 2.1:
>
>46...Bxg4 47.fxg4
>  ±  (0.74)   Depth: 1/2   00:00:00
>46...g2 47.Nfxh2 gxh1Q 48.Rxh1
>  ³  (-0.36)   Depth: 1/12   00:00:00
>46...g2 47.Nfxh2 gxh1Q 48.Rxh1
>  ³  (-0.36)   Depth: 2/18   00:00:00
>46...g2 47.Nfxh2 gxh1Q 48.Rxh1 Nf6 49.Nxf6 Kxf6
>  µ  (-0.80)   Depth: 3/18   00:00:00
>46...g2 47.Nfxh2 gxh1Q 48.Rxh1 Nf6 49.Rg1
>  ³  (-0.69)   Depth: 4/18   00:00:00
>46...g2 47.Nfxh2 gxh1Q 48.Rxh1 Kh8 49.Nf1 Bxg4 50.fxg4
>  ³  (-0.61)   Depth: 5/18   00:00:00
>46...g2 47.Nfxh2 gxh1Q 48.Rxh1 Nf6 49.Nxf6 Kxf6 50.Ng4+ Bxg4 51.fxg4 Kg7
>  ³  (-0.61)   Depth: 6/20   00:00:00  54kN
>46...g2 47.Nfxh2 gxh1Q 48.Rxh1 Nf6 49.Nxf6 Qg2 50.Nh5+ Kg6 51.Ng3 Qxg3
>  µ  (-0.83)   Depth: 7/26   00:00:00  135kN
>46...g2 47.Nfxh2 gxh1Q 48.Rxh1 Qf4 49.Ne3 Ng5 50.Ng2 Qg3 51.Ne3
>  µ  (-0.73)   Depth: 8/29   00:00:00  332kN
>46...Bxg4 47.Nxh2 gxh2 48.fxg4 Qf4 49.Qh3 Ng5 50.Qh4 Rh8
>  µ  (-0.77)   Depth: 8/29   00:00:00  485kN
>46...Bxg4 47.Nxh2 gxh2 48.fxg4 Qf4 49.Qd3 Nf6 50.Rcf1 Qxe4 51.Qxe4 Nxe4 52.Rxf7+
>Rxf7 53.Rxh2
>  µ  (-0.85)   Depth: 9/30   00:00:01  666kN
>46...Bxg4 47.Nxh2 gxh2 48.fxg4 Qf4 49.Qh3 Ng5 50.Qxh2 Qxh2 51.Rxh2 Nxe4 52.Kb2
>  µ  (-0.93)   Depth: 10/30   00:00:01  1107kN
>46...Bxg4 47.Nxh2 gxh2 48.fxg4 Qf4 49.Kb2 Nf6 50.Bf3 Rh8 51.Rcf1 Rh3 52.Qd3 Nxg4
>  µ  (-1.27)   Depth: 11/31   00:00:02  2207kN
>46...Bxg4 47.Nxh2 gxh2 48.fxg4 Qf4 49.Kb2 Nf6 50.Bf3 Nd7 51.Rcf1 Nc5 52.Ka3 Kh8
>  µ  (-1.29)   Depth: 12/32   00:00:05  4455kN
>46...Bxg4 47.Nxh2 gxh2 48.fxg4 Qf4 49.Qh3 Ng5 50.Qxh2 Qxh2 51.Rxh2 Nxe4 52.Kb2
>Nc5 53.Ra1 Rf2 54.Rxf2 Rxf2
>  µ  (-1.26)   Depth: 13/34   00:00:10  9027kN
>46...Bxg4 47.Nxh2 gxh2 48.fxg4 Qf4 49.Qh3 Ng5 50.Qxh2 Qxh2 51.Rxh2 Nxe4 52.Rch1
>Nc3+ 53.Ka1 Nxa4 54.Rh7+ Kg6 55.Bd3+ Kg5
>  µ  (-1.23)   Depth: 14/38   00:00:20  17789kN
>46...Bxg4 47.Nxh2 gxh2 48.fxg4 Qf4 49.Qh3 Ng5 50.Qxh2 Qxh2 51.Rxh2 Nxe4 52.Kb2
>Nc5 53.Ra1 Rf2 54.Rxf2 Rxf2 55.Bc4
>  µ  (-1.30)   Depth: 15/38   00:00:40  35182kN
>46...Bxg4 47.Nxh2 gxh2 48.fxg4 Rf2 49.Qxc7+ R8f7 50.Qc4 Qd2 51.Bd3 Nf6 52.Ka1
>Nxg4 53.Qc6 Qb4 54.Qxb6 Qxa4+ 55.Kb1 Qa3
>  -+  (-1.41)   Depth: 16/47   00:01:23  73882kN
>46...Bxg4 47.Nxh2 gxh2 48.fxg4 Rf2 49.Qxc7+ R8f7 50.Qc4 Qd2 51.Bd3 Nf6 52.g5 Nh7
>53.g6 Kxg6 54.Ka1 Qb4 55.Qa2 Nf6
>  -+  (-1.59)   Depth: 17/51   00:03:13  175009kN
>46...Bxg4 47.Nxh2 gxh2 48.Rxh2 Bc8 49.Rch1 Kg8 50.Rxh7 Rxh7 51.Rxh7 Kxh7
>52.Qxc7+ Kg6 53.Qxb6 Qd8 54.Qg1+ Kf6 55.Qe3 Ke7 56.b6 Rg8 57.Qf2 Rh8 58.Kb2
>  -+  (-1.52)   Depth: 18/55   00:05:52  321591kN
>46...Bxg4 47.Nxh2 gxh2 48.Rxh2 Bc8 49.Rch1 Kg8 50.Bd3 Qf6 51.Rg2+ Kh8 52.Be2 Rg7
>53.Rgh2 Qe7 54.Rh6 Rf6 55.R6h2 Rfg6 56.f4 Rg1+ 57.Rxg1 Rxg1+ 58.Kb2
>  -+  (-1.62)   Depth: 19/67   00:12:40  696806kN
>
>(,  27.07.2005)
>
>SHREDDER - Garcia Palermo,C, Mercosur Cup 2005
>2b2r2/2p2rkn/1p1p4/pP1Pp1q1/P3P1N1/2Q2Pp1/2P1B2p/1KR2N1R b - - 0 1
>
>Analysis by Shredder 9 UCI:
>
>46...Bxg4
>  ³  (-0.56)   Depth: 1/1   00:00:00
>46...Bxg4 47.fxg4
>  µ  (-0.77)   Depth: 1/4   00:00:00
>46...Bxg4 47.fxg4
>  ³  (-0.52)   Depth: 2/6   00:00:00
>46...Bxg4 47.Nxh2
>  =  (-0.04)   Depth: 2/10   00:00:00
>46...Qxc1+
>  ³  (-0.47)   Depth: 2/14   00:00:00
>46...Qxc1+ 47.Kxc1 g2
>  ³  (-0.47)   Depth: 2/14   00:00:00
>46...Qxc1+ 47.Kxc1
>  =  (-0.22)   Depth: 3/14   00:00:00
>46...Qxc1+ 47.Kxc1
>  ²  (0.28)   Depth: 3/14   00:00:00
>46...Qxc1+ 47.Kxc1
>  ²  (0.28)   Depth: 3/14   00:00:00
>46...Bxg4
>  ²  (0.27)   Depth: 3/17   00:00:00
>46...Bxg4 47.Nxh2 gxh2
>  =  (-0.04)   Depth: 3/17   00:00:00
>46...Bxg4 47.Nxh2 gxh2 48.fxg4
>  =  (-0.04)   Depth: 4/17   00:00:00
>46...Bxg4 47.Nxh2 gxh2 48.fxg4 Qf4
>  =  (-0.20)   Depth: 5/17   00:00:00
>46...Bxg4 47.Nxh2 gxh2 48.fxg4 Qh6 49.Qg3
>  =  (0.03)   Depth: 6/17   00:00:00  10kN
>46...Bxg4 47.Nxh2
>  =  (-0.22)   Depth: 7/17   00:00:00  21kN
>46...Bxg4 47.Nxh2 gxh2 48.fxg4 Rf2 49.Qxc7+
>  =  (-0.22)   Depth: 7/17   00:00:00  24kN
>46...Bxg4 47.Nxh2 gxh2 48.fxg4 Rf2 49.Qxc7+ R8f7 50.Qxb6 Rxe2 51.Qxd6
>  ³  (-0.39)   Depth: 8/22   00:00:00  51kN
>46...Bxg4 47.Nxh2 gxh2 48.fxg4 Rf2 49.Qxc7+ R8f7 50.Qxb6 Rxe2 51.Qxd6
>  ³  (-0.39)   Depth: 9/23   00:00:02  85kN
>46...Bxg4 47.Nxh2
>  =  (-0.14)   Depth: 10/24   00:00:02  148kN
>46...Bxg4 47.Nxh2 gxh2 48.Rxh2 Bc8
>  =  (-0.14)   Depth: 10/24   00:00:02  187kN
>46...Bxg4 47.Nxh2 gxh2 48.Rxh2 Bc8 49.Rch1 Nf6 50.Rh4 Bb7 51.R4h3 Kg8
>  ³  (-0.30)   Depth: 11/24   00:00:03  351kN
>46...Bxg4 47.Nxh2 gxh2 48.Rxh2 Bc8 49.Rch1 Nf6 50.Rh4 Bb7 51.R4h3 Rg8 52.Rh4
>  =  (-0.21)   Depth: 12/27   00:00:04  621kN
>46...Bxg4 47.Nxh2 gxh2 48.Rxh2 Bc8 49.Rch1 Nf6 50.Rh4 Bb7 51.Bf1 Ne8 52.Be2 Kg8
>  ³  (-0.26)   Depth: 13/31   00:00:06  1143kN
>46...Bxg4 47.Nxh2
>  =  (-0.01)   Depth: 14/31   00:00:07  1933kN
>46...Bxg4 47.Nxh2 gxh2 48.Rxh2 Bc8 49.Rhh1 Qf4 50.Rcg1+ Kf6 51.Ka2 Ng5
>  =  (0.06)   Depth: 14/33   00:00:07  2638kN
>46...Bxg4 47.Nxh2 gxh2 48.Rxh2 Bc8 49.Rch1 Kg8 50.Rh5 Qf4 51.R5h4 Qg3 52.Rh6
>  =  (0.00)   Depth: 15/33   00:00:13  6428kN
>46...Bxg4 47.Nxh2 gxh2 48.Rxh2 Bc8 49.Rch1 Kg8 50.Rh5 Qg3 51.Qe3 Qf4 52.Qc3 Rg7
>53.R5h4 Qg5
>  =  (-0.05)   Depth: 16/40   00:00:21  10576kN
>46...Bxg4 47.Nxh2 gxh2 48.Rxh2 Bc8 49.Rch1 Kg8 50.Rh5 Qg3 51.Qe3 Qf4 52.Qc3 Rg7
>53.R5h4 Qg5
>  =  (-0.05)   Depth: 17/42   00:00:38  18723kN
>46...Bxg4 47.Nxh2 gxh2 48.Rxh2 Bc8 49.Rch1 Kg8 50.Rh5 Qg3 51.Qe3 Qf4 52.Qc3 Rg7
>53.R5h4 Qg3 54.Qe3
>  =  (-0.05)   Depth: 18/42   00:01:07  33174kN
>46...Bxg4 47.Nxh2 gxh2 48.Rxh2 Bc8 49.Rch1 Kg8 50.Rh5 Qg3 51.Qe3 Qf4 52.Qc3 Rg7
>53.Kb2 Qg3 54.Rh6
>  =  (-0.05)   Depth: 19/48   00:02:13  65294kN
>46...Bxg4 47.Nxh2 gxh2 48.Rxh2 Bc8 49.Rch1 Kg8 50.Qe1 Qf4
>  =  (-0.14)   Depth: 20/49   00:04:26  131060kN
>46...g2
>  =  (-0.15)   Depth: 20/49   00:05:30  161977kN
>46...g2 47.Nfxh2 gxh1Q 48.Rxh1 Nf6 49.Nxf6
>  ³  (-0.49)   Depth: 20/49   00:07:47  226817kN
>
>(,  27.07.2005)
>
>Uri



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