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Subject: Re: Chess960 mirror positions -> Chess480

Author: Jeff Lischer

Date: 08:34:34 08/01/05

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On August 01, 2005 at 11:19:54, Tord Romstad wrote:

>On August 01, 2005 at 10:30:29, F. Huber wrote:
>
>>On August 01, 2005 at 10:18:44, Tord Romstad wrote:
>>
>>>On August 01, 2005 at 10:07:49, Andreas Stabel wrote:
>>>
>>>>Chess 960 is really chess 480 since half the positions are mirror images of
>>>>other positions and therefore funtionally identical.
>>>>
>>>>I do not understand why these mirror positions have not been eliminated.
>>>
>>>Because they are *not* functionally identical.  Castling is not symmetrical.
>>>When castling queenside, the king ends up on c1/c8, when castling kingside,
>>>the king ends up on g1/g8.
>>>
>>>Tord
>>
>>Well, I would say it _is_ identical, if you simply swap the meaning of O-O and
>>O-O-O. It´s almost the same as e.g. 1.a4 would be 1.h4 in the ´mirror´ game,
>>so it´s only a matter of naming conventions.
>
>No, it is not.  O-O and O-O-O cannot be considered equivalent, no matter how
>you look at it.  The king ends up on the knight file in one case, on the bishop
>file in the other.  All the 960 different starting positions *are*
>fundamentally different.  There is no way to reduce it to 480 positions.
>
As a concrete example... In the normal starting position the king moves 2
squares when castling either kingside or queenside. Now consider the "symmetric"
position with the king and queen locations swapped. Now the king moves 3 squares
for O-O  and only 1 square for O-O-O.

>>What I am really wondering about is, why the restriction "king between rooks"
>>has been kept? Without this restriction (and by simply making a little
>>modification to the castling moves) there would be much more starting positions.
>
>Don't ask me.  I didn't invent the game, and I've never really understood
>the point of it.  I suspect maximising the number of starting position wasn't
>considered an important goal (and why should it be?).
>
>Tord



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