Computer Chess Club Archives


Search

Terms

Messages

Subject: Re: What's wrong with Shredder?

Author: Harald Faber

Date: 02:24:00 02/22/99

Go up one level in this thread


On February 20, 1999 at 05:50:56, Stefan Meyer-Kahlen wrote:

>>>What's wrong with Shredder?

>>OK, just my 2 cents what misses or does not satisfy:
>>
>>1) the prize :-)
>>   Maybe I am known for critics in that direction but I can't see to justify
>>double prize as Fritz/Junior/Nimzo99 and Rebel. Probably they are even
>>stronger and offer many needful features.
>>   I know that you are not the only one trying to keep the prize high but
>>considering the above named competitors it is hard to argue in favour of
>>Shredder.
>>   For me the only superior property i Shredder is the GUI. It is the best
>>   Windows-GUI (I know that MCS has come close).
>
>I agree that it is nicer for customers to buy a product for half price only, but
>I also think that the current price of Shredder is well justified. Maybe we
>should wait and see until and Fritz6 and Rebel for Windows is released to check
>weather they are still being sold at their current price. You can also get a

Well, you may be right but I don't mind what WILL BE. At the moment there IS
s.th. that, my personal view, does not justify the prizes, neither for Shredder
nor for Genius6/MCS or Hiarcs7.

>Shredder for half price. There is a "Mephisto Shredder" around with a weaker
>engine and less features. If you want "the real thing", well ... :-)

Ya, I know that also Shredder1 is for DM28.80 available...

>>2) no flexible time per move
>>   I couldn't and can't believe it: there is only a fixed time per move, no
>> flexible.
>
>Just set it to x moves in y minutes. What's wrong with that? I always don't like
>to see people playing program X vs. program Y with a time limit of say 5
>seconds/move. This is pure random as every program can and will take as much
>time as the programer wants. So you really can't compare that!

?? FLEXIBLE means that as well your program as the opponent can take 3min, less
or more if necessary in a complicated position. And, senseful or not, EVERY
other program offers that time "control"...

>>3) strength
>>   We can discuss if I will ever beat Shredder1-3 but one always wants the best
>>   program to get the best analysis (e.g.)
>>   Shredder has/had some highlights of course, but all in all I think it is a
>>bit behind. Maybe Sherdder can compete with other programs, I don't know, but
>>   at the moment I am running a match against Hiarcs7 which doesn't look well
>>although Shredder has a speed advantage of 50%. So far:
>>   Hiarcs7: 11.0, Shredder3: 7.0
>>   (Shredder on K6-200/24+8MB hash, Hiarcs7 on MMX166/47MB hash, 40/120+rest/60)
>
>OK, so you want a stronger engine and don't care so much about features, right?

Right, I am a bit spoilt. :-)
Serious, as there are other competitors offering MANY (mostly senseful) features
personally I don't see any major addition of features I need in Shredder3
comparing to Shredder2. Is there one single feature that is really smashing and
no other program has?
I mean I want to play the program, analyze games/databases and do some testing.
That is what even Shredder2 could do.
And finally, adding features is not the only way, they must be senseful and
needed, needed in the sense that customers wish them to be included.
BTW there is another feature you should definitely IMPROVE: the opening book
editor.

>>What really pleases is, as I mentioned above, the real true Windows GUI and the
>>autoplayer within Shredder. Exemplary!
>>BTW is it a bug that I can't load the next/previous game via the button/icon? It
>>worked well in Shredder2 but now I have to load the games again with CTRL-L
>>although I don't need to select a database, directly I get the game list.
>
>Sorry, I didn't get this. The buttons work fine on my computer.

Hmm. Tried it again. Loaded a database (pgn) chose the 1st game and loaded. Then
tried F8 but didn't/doesn't work.

>>And, finally, I hope it didn't disturb you too much to lose against P.ConNers
>>while I said in the middlegame that black had the better position. Maybe I was
>>wrong. :-) Or Shredder patzte. ;-)
>
>Oh, you've been to Paderborn. Maybe everybody should wear name tags next time
>:-)
>Stefan

I was "der große Blonde mit dem schwarzen Schuh". ;-)
(Hmm, I am not sure if I wore black shoes...) but as there were not so many
Kiebitzers maybe you remember. If not, maybe you recognize me again in June. ;-)



This page took 0 seconds to execute

Last modified: Thu, 15 Apr 21 08:11:13 -0700

Current Computer Chess Club Forums at Talkchess. This site by Sean Mintz.