Author: Thomas Logan
Date: 14:42:41 08/22/05
Go up one level in this thread
On August 22, 2005 at 16:40:16, Pedro Gomes wrote:
>On August 22, 2005 at 13:17:19, Thomas Logan wrote:
>
>>On August 22, 2005 at 08:57:56, Pedro Gomes wrote:
>>
>>>On August 22, 2005 at 05:53:13, Thomas Logan wrote:
>>>
>>>>Now
>>>>
>>>>THOMAS-KBZT8WLT, 40'/40+40'/40+40' 0
>>>>
>>>> 12345678
>>>>1 Shredder 9 1100111½ 5.5/8
>>>>2 Toga II 1.0 0011000½ 2.5/8
>>>>
>>>>[Event "THOMAS-KBZT8WLT, 40'/40+40'/40+40'"]
>>>>[Site "THOMAS-KBZT8WLT"]
>>>>[Date "2005.08.20"]
>>>>[Round "1"]
>>>>[White "Shredder 9"]
>>>>[Black "Toga II 1.0"]
>>>>[Result "1-0"]
>>>>[ECO "B90"]
>>>>[Annotator "0.31;0.58"]
>>>>[PlyCount "114"]
>>>>[TimeControl "40/2400:40/2400:2400"]
>>>>
>>>>{W=20.1 ply; 729kN/s B=18.1 ply; 1,391kN/s} 1. e4 {[%emt 0:00:00]} c5 {
>>>>[%emt 0:00:00]} 2. Nf3 {[%emt 0:00:00]} d6 {[%emt 0:00:00]} 3. d4 {
>>>>[%emt 0:00:00]} cxd4 {[%emt 0:00:00]} 4. Nxd4 {[%emt 0:00:00]} Nf6 {
>>>>[%emt 0:00:00]} 5. Nc3 {[%emt 0:00:00]} a6 {[%emt 0:00:00]} 6. Be3 {
>>>>[%emt 0:00:00]} e5 {[%emt 0:00:00]} 7. Nf3 {[%emt 0:00:00]} Qc7 {[%emt 0:00:00]
>>>>} 8. a4 {[%emt 0:00:00]} Be7 {[%emt 0:00:00]} 9. a5 {[%emt 0:00:00]} O-O {
>>>>[%emt 0:00:00]} 10. Be2 {[%emt 0:00:00]} Nbd7 {[%emt 0:00:00]} 11. O-O {
>>>>[%emt 0:00:00]} b5 {[%emt 0:00:00]} 12. axb6 {[%emt 0:00:00]} Nxb6 {
>>>>[%emt 0:00:00]} 13. Nd2 {[%emt 0:00:00]} Bb7 {[%emt 0:00:00]} 14. Bxb6 {
>>>>[%emt 0:00:00]} Qxb6 {[%emt 0:00:00]} 15. Nc4 {[%emt 0:00:00]} Qc5 {
>>>>[%emt 0:00:00]} 16. Ra5 {White last book move [%emt 0:00:00]} Qc7 {
>>>>[%emt 0:00:00]} 17. Qd3 {[%eval 31,18] [%emt 0:01:58]} Rad8 {[%emt 0:00:00]}
>>>>18. Bf3 {[%eval 29,17] [%emt 0:01:26]} Rd7 {[%emt 0:00:00]} 19. Rfa1 {
>>>>[%eval 48,17] [%emt 0:02:01]} Rc8 {Black last book move [%emt 0:00:00]} >
>>>
>>>
>>>In this position white already has advantage.
>>>How can you test black´s strenght in this case ?
>>>There is a basic rule for testing chess engines:
>>>
>>>Use opening books for only 5-6 first moves, in any case never more than 10 (20
>>>plies)
>>>
>>>HFP
>>
>>The problem is many engines are designed to play with their opening books
>>
>>No one test a Shredder against a Junior or a Fritz with a 5-6 move opening book
>>
>>At least that is so in my opinion
>>
>>When an engine plays in WCC it is not limited to a 5-6 move book
>>
>>When the sdss test a computer they do not limit to a 5-6 move book
>>
>>So When I test I test with the book the engine comes with
>>
>>If the oponnent does not have a book or a very small one I try to provide one
>>that has a good reputation
>>
>>In this case I used the deep Fritz 8 book. Fruit played very well with that
>>book in 100 games against Shreder and Fritz bilbao
>>
>>While a good book I suspect like other books it has some bad lines
>>
>>In this particular case I had no time to examine the position
>>
>>however I am open to suggestions for a book for Toga
>>
>>Tom
>
>
>I can tell you only what I think is better for testing chess engines, and I am
>not interested what other peoples do.
>
>If you test engines, book is not importnate. In this case book is only a tool in
>a test process. When I test engines I observe both engines score after exiting
>the their books, and if the score is not balances I stop the game. As I said: I
>test engines, not their books.
>
>If one engine´s book insite in "bad" posititions after book moves, I replace its
>book with mine, in Arena.
>
>Without Arena I would use Nunn tests, which offers balances starting positions,
>and would play the same position for every engine, with white and black.
>
>HFP
Hi Pedro
I understand your views and believe there is value in your testing method
but I do not prefer it.
I believe Shredder was designed and tuned to play with its book and
not nunn or remis or 5moves etc
It comes as a total package and I prefer testing it as a total package in the
environment and design specification of the author
but that is my opinion and the chess world is big enough for both views
Tom
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