Computer Chess Club Archives


Search

Terms

Messages

Subject: Re: An Experiment that disproves Hyatt's 1000X NPS Theory

Author: Vincent Diepeveen

Date: 19:33:58 09/17/05

Go up one level in this thread


On September 17, 2005 at 17:02:09, ALI MIRAFZALI wrote:

Take a time control of 40 in 2 with pocket fritz against crafty without nullmove
and give crafty factor 1000 in nps extra.

Deep Blue didn't use nullmove either.

>On September 17, 2005 at 10:29:08, Uri Blass wrote:
>
>>On September 17, 2005 at 10:04:32, ALI MIRAFZALI wrote:
>>
>>>Hyatt has claimed many times that a Nodes Per Second Factor of one thousand
>>>times would not be overcome by the program with the less Nodes per second.In
>>>this Experiment it was shown conclusively that this is false .Although I played
>>>4 games ,I do not think the result would have been different if I had played a
>>>hundred more.Time Control 40 MOVES IN 2 HOURS followed by sudden death in 1
>>>hour.Hardware: GNU CHESS 4.11 a program from 1996 ran a celeron 1.8 Gig machine
>>>;Chess Tiger on Palm ran on the Palm Tungten E.NODES PER SECOND:ON THE
>>>AVERAGE:CHESSTIGER ON PALM 500 per second ,GNU CHESS 4.11 500000 per second on
>>>the celeron 1.8 Gig.1000X DIFFERENCE.Hyatt and some other people have always
>>>argued about the supremecy of DeepBlue based on its speed.I think these days
>>>these arguments are false;and Speed does not mean as much as it used to.Deep
>>>blue would be crushed by todays program's.A lot of STRENGTH is EVALUATION
>>>FUNCTION.Take a look at these games:
>>>Match ended in 2-2 draw.
>>>
>>>[Event "?"]
>>>[Site "?"]
>>>[Date "2005.09.17"]
>>>[Round ""]
>>>[White "CHESS 4.11, GNU"]
>>>[Black "Tiger on Palm, Chess"]
>>>[Result "0-1"]
>>>
>>>1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nf6 3.Nxe5 d6 4.Nf3 Nxe4 5.d4 d5
>>>6.Bd3 Bd6 7.O-O O-O 8.c4 c6 9.cxd5 cxd5 10.Nc3 Nxc3
>>>11.bxc3 Qc7 12.Qc2 h6 13.Qb3 Be6 14.Ba3 Bxa3 15.Qxa3 Nc6
>>>16.Rae1 Rac8 17.Re3 Bg4 18.h3 Bxf3 19.Rxf3 Rfe8 20.Qb3 Rcd8
>>>21.Rb1 Rd7 22.g3 Qd6 23.Qb5 Kf8 24.Rf4 Rc7 25.Qb3 Ne7
>>>26.Re1 Rec8 27.Rf3 Rxc3 28.Qxb7 Qc7 29.Qb4 a5 30.Qa4 Nc6
>>>31.Rfe3 Rb8 32.Bf1 Rxe3 33.Rxe3 Ne7 34.Rb3 Rxb3 35.axb3 f6
>>>36.b4 axb4 37.Qxb4 Ke8 38.Qc5 Qxc5 39.dxc5 Kd7 40.Bb5+ Nc6
>>>41.f4 Kc7 42.f5 Nd4 43.Bd3 Kc6 44.Kf2 Kxc5 45.g4 Nb3
>>>46.Ke3 d4+ 47.Ke4 Nd2+ 48.Kf4 Kb4 49.h4 Kc3 50.Bb5 Nc4
>>>51.Ba4 d3 52.Kf3 Nb2 53.Bb5 d2 54.Be2 Kd4 55.Kf4 d1=Q
>>>56.Bxd1 Nxd1 57.Kf3 Ne3 58.Kf4 Kd3 59.Kf3 h5 60.gxh5 Nxf5
>>>61.Kf4 Nd4 62.Kg3 Ke2 63.Kf4 f5 64.Kg5 Kf3 65.h6 gxh6+
>>>66.Kxh6 Kg4 67.Kg6 f4 68.Kh6 f3 69.Kg6 f2 70.Kf6 f1=Q+
>>>71.Ke7 Nf5+ 72.Ke8 Qb5+ 73.Kd8 Qb7 74.h5 Kxh5 75.Ke8 Qe7+
>>> 0-1
>>
>>looking at the game it seems that gnuchess lost because of tactical blunder.
>>38.Qc5 is losing a pawn so it is not only bad evaluation of gnuchess but also
>>weak search algorithm of it.
>>
>>Note that testing gnuchess against tiger proves nothing even if you have enough
>>games and I remember no claim of Hyatt about gnuchess.
>>
>>I think that it may be more interesting to test Crafty against FruitWCCC when
>>Crafty gets 1000:1 time advantage
>>
>>Fruit WCCC is very strong and my opinion is that it has a chance to win a long
>>match at 2 hours/40 moves against Crafty with 10:1 speed advantage for Crafty(in
>>WCCC it performed clearly better than Crafty inspite of big hardware advantage
>>for Crafty that was at least 5:1) but I believe that 1000:1 is too much even for
>>fruit.
>>
>>Uri
>Uri
>It is not that he claimed anything about GNU in particular;but was only talking
>about the 1000:1 factor. Please note the difference



This page took 0.02 seconds to execute

Last modified: Thu, 15 Apr 21 08:11:13 -0700

Current Computer Chess Club Forums at Talkchess. This site by Sean Mintz.