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Subject: Re: question about fruit future plans

Author: Daniel Shawul

Date: 21:55:01 09/27/05

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On September 27, 2005 at 18:20:10, Tord Romstad wrote:

>Hi Steve!
>
>On September 27, 2005 at 17:29:54, Steve Maughan wrote:
>
>>Interesting!  Is there any particular reason for switching back to MTD other
>>than curiosity?
>
>Yes.  When I get some time for chess programming again (not any time soon,
>I'm afraid) I want to give parallell search a try.  I think it will be easier to
>get
>a parallell search working if I start with a very simple and minimalistic
>search function.  MTD is much easier to code than the other popular alpha
>beta variants, and can be implemented in very few lines of code.  It also
>seems to be somewhat easier to parallellise, because all searches are done
>with a null window.  This means that it is never necessary to adjust the
>bounds for other processors when one processor finds an improvement
>to alpha or beta.
   Hi Tord
   If that is the only reason you are switching back, i think you might
be disappointed. Especially if you use YBW you already get good enough bounds
with the first move.
  daniel
>
>At least this is what I initially thought.  Now I am no longer so sure.
>MTD is easier to implement, but on the other hand it tends to be harder
>to debug.  When trying to write a parallell search, ease of debugging
>might be more important than ease of implementation.
>
>>What are your findings?
>
>Nothing interesting yet, except that it is possible to implement
>an MTD root driver, a search and a qsearch in less than 100
>lines of code.
>
>>Are you going to stick with MTD or go back to PVS?
>
>I will almost certainly go back to PVS sooner or later.  It is
>possible that there will be a public version with an MTD search
>first, though.  As far as I know, there is no modern, open
>source chess engine of decent strength using MTD, which is
>a shame.  There really should be an implementation for
>people to experiment with.
>
>>Have you started on your re-write of Glaurung?
>
>Yes, the MTD version is a complete re-write.  It is still more
>than 100 points weaker than Glaurung Mainz, though (which
>isn't strange, considering that I have spent less than 10 hours
>working on it).
>
>>I haven't come across that much literature on double bound transposition tables.
>> I must say they intrigue me as I think the gap between the bounds could (in
>>some cases) be used to shape the tree i.e. extend or prune.  I plan to play
>>around with double bounds with Monarch when I get the chance.
>
>Interesting, but in a PVS engine using two bounds I am afraid you
>usually won't find many nodes where both bounds are actually used.
>
>Tord



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