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Subject: Re: Fail-soft with PVS?

Author: Dave Gomboc

Date: 21:55:05 03/09/99

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On March 09, 1999 at 14:34:49, Will Singleton wrote:

>
>Using PVS, I can't seem to demonstrate a clear benefit to using a small window
>around the root score, as opposed to +-mate.
>
>Using a window of, for example, one-third pawn, if a move fails-high or low, it
>takes fewer nodes to ascertain the move that caused the change, because you
>don't have to find the real score right away.  But then you've got to resolve
>the new score, and that will take more nodes since you've got to re-search with
>the relaxed window.

In general, it should take you less nodes to search (n, n+1) followed by (n+1,
beta) than it will for you to search [alpha, beta].  You are blocking out
(alpha, n) completely, that must be worth something if your move ordering is
good, yes?

>And if, after a fail-high or low, you attempt to delay score resolution until
>the next ply (to avoid the re-search at the same ply), it seems you might have
>the problem of finding a worse move after the fail at the same ply, since you
>don't know the real score yet.  This would result in even more nodes being used.

You could choose to not resolve the fail-high as long as you don't have a second
move fail-high on the window (n+1, beta) as well.  If that happens, you'd better
resolve one of them, and test the other against whatever result you get from the
resolved one.

>So I don't see much benefit, unless I'm doing something wrong (likely).  On a
>normal search, without any fails, I see either more or less nodes (between
>windowing and +-mate), depending on the position.  But not really much change.
>
>Any comment would be apppreciated.
>
>Will

I assume your transposition table is working well.  Minimal-window techniques
(but especially mtd(f), PVS is not so bad) rely heavily on a good tt.

Dave Gomboc



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