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Subject: Re: Fruit-Toga 1.0 lacks endgame knowledge ?

Author: Roman Hartmann

Date: 02:50:29 10/13/05

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On October 13, 2005 at 05:33:09, Günther Simon wrote:

>On October 13, 2005 at 05:24:18, Roman Hartmann wrote:
>
[ ... ]
>>New game,
>>8/4r3/2R4p/k6P/5pK1/4b3/6B1/8 b - - 0 1
>>Analysis by Toga II 1.0:
>>1. = (-0.19): 1...Re5 2.Rg6 Re8 3.Kf5 Rf8+ 4.Rf6 Rh8 5.Bf3 Kb4 6.Kg6 Kc4 7.Rd6
>>Bd4 8.Kf5 Rf8+ 9.Kg6 Bc5 10.Re6 Rd8 11.Kxh6
>>2. = (-0.15): 1...Rg7+ 2.Rg6 Rh7 3.Bf3 Kb4 4.Kf5 Rh8 5.Rg7 Kc5 6.Kg6 Bd4 7.Rc7+
>>Kd6 8.Rh7 Rc8 9.Kf5 Rc5+ 10.Kg4 Bf6 11.Rxh6 Ke5
>>3. = (-0.15): 1...Re8 2.Bf3 Rh8 3.Kf5 Kb5 4.Rc7 Kb6 5.Rb7+ Kc5 6.Kg6 Bd4 7.Rc7+
>>Kd6 8.Rh7 Rc8 9.Kf5 Rc5+ 10.Kg4 Bf6 11.Rxh6 Ke5
>>4. = (-0.15): 1...Rh7 2.Kf5 Rh8 3.Bf3 Kb5 4.Rc7 Kb6 5.Rb7+ Kc5 6.Kg6 Bd4 7.Rc7+
>>Kd6 8.Rh7 Rc8 9.Kf5 Rc5+ 10.Kg4 Bf6 11.Rxh6 Ke5
>>5. = (-0.14): 1...Kb4 2.Bf3 Rh7 3.Rc8 Rf7 4.Rc6 Rg7+ 5.Kf5 Rh7 6.Rc8 Ra7 7.Ra8
>>Rxa8 8.Bxa8 Kc5 9.Kg6 Kd6 10.Bf3 Bd4 11.Kxh6
>>6. = (-0.09): 1...Rf7 2.Be4 Rf8 3.Rxh6 f3 4.Re6 f2 5.Bg2 Bd4 6.Re4 Bc5 7.h6 f1Q
>>8.Bxf1 Rxf1 9.h7 Rf8 10.Rf4 Rd8 11.Kf5 Kb5 12.Rh4
>>7. = (-0.05): 1...Rb7 2.Be4 Rb8 3.Rxh6 f3 4.Re6 f2 5.Bg2 Bd4 6.h6 Rb1 7.h7 Rg1
>>8.Kf3 f1Q+ 9.Bxf1 Rxf1+ 10.Ke4 Bb2 11.Rg6 Re1+ 12.Kf5 Re5+ 13.Kf4 Re7
>>8. = (-0.05): 1...Rd7 2.Be4 Rd8 3.Rxh6 f3 4.Rf6 f2 5.Kg3 Rh8 6.Bg6 Kb4 7.Rxf2
>>Bxf2+ 8.Kxf2 Kc5 9.Ke3 Kd5 10.Kf4 Kd4 11.Bf7 Rb8
>>9. = (-0.03): 1...Bd2 2.Rd6 Bc1 3.Bf3 Rh7 4.Kf5 Rh8 5.Rd1 Be3 6.Kg6 Rg8+ 7.Kxh6
>>Kb5 8.Kh7 Rg3 9.Rf1 Kc4 10.h6 Rg5
>>10. = (-0.01): 1...Kb5 2.Rxh6 f3 3.Bf1+ Kc5 4.Rg6 f2 5.Kf3 Bd4 6.h6 Rh7 7.Ke4
>>Bc3 8.Rg5+ Kb4 9.Rb5+ Ka4 10.Rf5 Rxh6 11.Rxf2 Rh4+ 12.Kd5 Kb4
>
>Hi Roman,
>
>The game was already in move 133, thus it is quite possible that the end
>of the 50 moves draw period was near.
>You'll need to feed the whole game history therefore instead of just the
>position to probably get the same move(of course it is also possible you
>won't ever get the same move because of different hash entries).
>Anyway it's needless to talk about ...f3(=) because it draws like most other
>moves too, what every better player can see(read my other post).
>Regrettably the original poster omitted the pgn, thus we cannot see where
>the _real_ blunder was, if it hadn't lost on time at all.
>
>Guenther

Hi Guenther,
you're right, of course. But I wondered that f3 wasn't even considered by
Fruit-Toga by analyzing the position. The hash entries might be an explanation
for the move or as already mentioned the time control.

Roman

PS: posting games is definitely not the same as posting positions. Recently I
got a game where Roce's incremental eval gets broken. I cannot reproduce the bug
by only analyzing the critical position but have to 'walk't trough the the game
to reproduce that behviour.



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