Author: Jonas Cohonas
Date: 05:57:28 11/10/05
Go up one level in this thread
>>That is cool! First released the programmer of Fruit a open sourse version of >>fruit (no commercioal!) for all ua people. then come Thomas Gaksch an make a >>stronger Toga 0.93 and later 0.94. After this the programmer of fruit make with >>Toga-Ideas a stonger Fruit 2.1. After Fruit 2.1 com Thomas and make a clear >>stronger Toga II 1.0 based on Fruit. >> >>The Programmer of Fruit see it and make an stronger Fruit 2.2 (or Fruit WCCC 05) >>an goes commercial with his strong program an make money! > >The above is a ridiculous misinterpretation of history. You make it sound like >Toga has been a major factor in the recent improvement of Fruit, and that lots >of "ideas" (I put the word in quotes because almost all of these so-called >"ideas" >are common computer chess techniques which have been used in dozens of >other programs since a decade or more) from Toga has been added to Fruit. > >The truth is that the only idea from Toga which was included in Fruit 2.1 was >the use of recapture and passed pawn extensions at PV nodes. Fabien thinks >this was an improvement (though I a not quite convinced), but it's definitely >a really tiny and insignificant part of the total improvement from Fruit 2.0 to >Fruit 2.1. The improvements from Fruit 2.1 to Fruit 2.2 are, as far as I can >see, >completely unrelated to anything found in Toga. > >You try to paint a picture where the authors of Fruit and Toga have had a >rather balanced set of mutual benefits from having access to each other's >code. Nothing could be further from the truth. Without Toga, Fruit would >be almost exactly at the same level it is today. Without Fruit, Toga would >probably be an average program, or not exist at all. > >>Cool. >> >>Next will come now a another stronger programmer there will implement a nice MV >>Mode and if this mode will be stronger as there by Fruit 2.2, also the >>programmer of Fruit can use this sourse (MV-Mode) to make a newer and stronger >>program (and more money!) on the basis of good another programmer ideas! > >If Thomas (or anybody else) wants to keep their techniques secret, there is >a simple way to do this: Write a closed-source program, and only distribute >the executable. In the case of Toga, this is not possible, for legal reasons. >Toga is based on a GPL program, and the GPL license states clearly that you >cannot modify and redistribute the program without also distributing the >code. When you decide to base your program on GPLed code, you have to >live with the consequences. It is very simple, really. > >>But now he goes commercial, in in this case my opinion is, that he have no more >>rights on own ideas other programmers more! > >He never had such a right, even when Fruit was open source. Everybody has >always been free to keep their ideas to themselves if they prefer. We are >talking about source code, not ideas. People who want to keep their secrets >just have to use something else than GPLed software as a vehicle for their >ideas. I don't understand how this can be difficult to understand, nor how >anybody can consider it unfair. > >Tord Well put Tord, i agree with all of your points here and i don't understand why it seems to be so hard to understand (for some) the logic behind them. Or why there keep emerging beta versions with games to boot, when Fabien has asked Thomas to release any "beta" versions and scource code whenever it is publicly shared, that be games posted even. I am still not comfortable with the way Thomas treats the Toga-based on fruit project, in my opinion he should realease any beta versions and scource code before sending them to testers and let everyone join in, i mean wouldn't more testing be done this way? well that is of course if one don't get the impression that Thomas feels Toga is original work... So here is a question for Thomas G, why don't you set up a website where you post all the beta versions along with scource code and _then_ ask your testers along with the rest of us to test them? (at the same time) why do you feel it is appropriate to treat Fabiens work like a closed scource project? Maybe it is just me here, and Fabien is totally ok with Thomas' handling of this, but to me there is something fishy about the whole Toga deal. Regards Jonas
This page took 0 seconds to execute
Last modified: Thu, 15 Apr 21 08:11:13 -0700
Current Computer Chess Club Forums at Talkchess. This site by Sean Mintz.