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Subject: Re: To NON-believers in EGTB benefits... (some engines benefit greatly..

Author: A. Steen

Date: 20:03:44 11/20/05

Go up one level in this thread


On November 20, 2005 at 22:42:02, enrico carrisco wrote:

>Let's take a simple KRK ending...
>
>[D]8/2k5/8/3R4/8/8/5K2/8 w - - 0 1
>
>Now let's run it through some of our favorite new and old engines without using
>any egtb's... (i.e. engine's knowledge of the ending only.)
>
>8/2k5/8/3R4/8/8/5K2/8 w - - 0 1
>
>Analysis by Fritz 9:
>
>1.Ke3 Kb6 2.Kd4 Kc6 3.Ke5 Kc7 4.Rd6
>  +-  (6.50)   Depth: 7/12   00:00:00  31kN
>1.Ke3 Kb6 2.Kd4 Kc6 3.Ke5 Kb7 4.Rd6 Kc7
>  +-  (6.50)   Depth: 8/14   00:00:00  77kN
>1.Ke3 Kb6 2.Kd4 Kc6 3.Ke5 Kb7 4.Rd6 Kc7 5.Re6
>  +-  (6.50)   Depth: 9/16   00:00:00  191kN
>1.Ke3!
>  +-  (6.81)   Depth: 10/16   00:00:00  332kN
>1.Ke3 Kb6 2.Kd4 Kc6 3.Kc4 Kb7 4.Kc5
>  +-  (6.88)   Depth: 11/18   00:00:00  649kN
>1.Ke3 Kb6 2.Kd4 Kc6 3.Kc4 Kb7 4.Kc5
>  +-  (6.94)   Depth: 12/20   00:00:00  1060kN
>1.Ke3!
>  +-  (#12)   Depth: 13/24   00:00:00  1424kN
>1.Ke3!
>  +-  (#12)   Depth: 13/24   00:00:00  1911kN
>----------------------------------------------------------
>
>8/2k5/8/3R4/8/8/5K2/8 w - - 0 1
>
>Analysis by Fritz 6:
>
>1.Ke3!
>  +-  (5.59)   Depth: 1/1   00:00:00
>1.Ke3--
>  +-  (5.22)   Depth: 2/3   00:00:00
>1.Ke3
>  +-  (5.22)   Depth: 2/3   00:00:00
>1.Ke3 Kc6 2.Ke4
>  +-  (5.28)   Depth: 3/4   00:00:00
>1.Ke3 Kb6 2.Ke4 Kc6
>  +-  (5.28)   Depth: 4/6   00:00:00
>1.Kf3!
>  +-  (5.47)   Depth: 4/6   00:00:00
>1.Kf3 Kb6
>  +-  (5.59)   Depth: 4/6   00:00:00  1kN
>1.Kf3 Kb7 2.Rc5 Kb6 3.Rd5
>  +-  (5.53)   Depth: 5/8   00:00:00  2kN
>1.Kf3 Kc6 2.Ke4 Kc7
>  +-  (5.59)   Depth: 6/10   00:00:00  8kN
>1.Ke3!
>  +-  (5.66)   Depth: 6/10   00:00:00  14kN
>1.Ke3 Kb6 2.Ke4 Kc6 3.Ke5 Kc7 4.Rd6
>  +-  (5.66)   Depth: 7/12   00:00:00  21kN
>1.Ke3 Kb6 2.Ke4 Kc6 3.Ke5 Kb7 4.Rd6 Kc7
>  +-  (5.66)   Depth: 8/13   00:00:00  57kN
>1.Ke3 Kb6 2.Ke4 Kc7 3.Kf4 Kc6 4.Ke5
>  +-  (5.66)   Depth: 9/14   00:00:00  150kN
>1.Ke3!
>  +-  (5.97)   Depth: 10/16   00:00:00  306kN
>1.Ke3 Kb6 2.Kd4 Kc6 3.Kc4 Kb7 4.Kc5 Kc7 5.Rd6 Kb7
>  +-  (6.03)   Depth: 11/16   00:00:00  532kN
>1.Ke3 Kb6 2.Kd4 Kc6 3.Kc4 Kb7 4.Kc5
>  +-  (6.03)   Depth: 12/20   00:00:00  828kN
>1.Ke3 Kb6 2.Kd4 Kc6 3.Kc4 Kb7 4.Kc5 Kc7 5.Rd6 Kb8
>  +-  (6.09)   Depth: 13/20   00:00:00  1240kN
>1.Ke3 Kb6 2.Kd4 Kc6 3.Kc4 Kb7 4.Rc5 Kb6 5.Kd5 Kb7
>  +-  (6.16)   Depth: 14/22   00:00:00  1880kN
>1.Ke3!
>  +-  (#16)   Depth: 15/20   00:00:00  2293kN
>1.Ke3 Kc6 2.Kd4
>  +-  (#12)   Depth: 15/23   00:00:00  3022kN
>-----------------------------------------------------------------------
>8/2k5/8/3R4/8/8/5K2/8 w - - 0 1
>
>Analysis by Deep Junior 9:
>
>1.Rd1 Kc6
>  +-  (3.97)   Depth: 3   00:00:00
>1.Ke3 Kc6
>  +-  (4.14)   Depth: 3   00:00:00
>1.Ke3 Kb6 2.Kd4
>  +-  (4.27)   Depth: 6   00:00:00
>1.Ke3 Kb6 2.Kd4 Kc6 3.Ke5
>  +-  (4.27)   Depth: 9   00:00:00  1kN
>1.Kf3 Kb6 2.Kf4 Kc7 3.Ke5
>  +-  (4.34)   Depth: 9   00:00:00  5kN
>1.Kf3 Kb6 2.Kf4 Kc7 3.Ke5 Kc6
>  +-  (4.28)   Depth: 12   00:00:00  12kN
>1.Kf3 Kb6 2.Kf4 Kc7 3.Ke5 Kc6 4.Ke6 Kc7
>  +-  (4.35)   Depth: 15   00:00:00  62kN
>1.Kf3 Kb6 2.Kf4 Kc7 3.Ke5 Kc6 4.Ke4 Kc7
>  +-  (4.35)   Depth: 18   00:00:00  306kN
>1.Ke3 Kb6 2.Kd4 Kc6 3.Ke5 Kb7 4.Rc5 Kb6 5.Kd6 Ka7
>  +-  (4.39)   Depth: 18   00:00:00  306kN
>1.Ke3 Kb6 2.Kd4 Kc6 3.Ke5 Kc7 4.Kf5 Kb6
>  +-  (4.35)   Depth: 21   00:00:00  1526kN
>1.Ke3 Kb6 2.Kd4 Kc6 3.Kc4 Kb7 4.Kb5 Kc7 5.Kc5 Kb7
>  +-  (4.40)   Depth: 24   00:00:01  5080kN
>1.Ke3 Kb6 2.Kd4 Kc6 3.Kc4 Kb7 4.Kb5 Kc7 5.Kc5 Kb7 6.Rd7+ Kc8 7.Kd6 Kb8 8.Rc7 Ka8
>  +-  (4.56)   Depth: 27   00:00:03  9729kN
>1.Ke3!
>  +-  (4.86)   Depth: 30   00:00:04  13212kN
>1.Ke3!
>  +-  (5.16)   Depth: 33   00:00:07  21330kN
>1.Ke3 Kb6 2.Kf4 Kc7 3.Ke5 Kc6 4.Ke6 Kc7 5.Rc5+ Kb6 6.Kd6 Kb7 7.Rb5+ Ka7 8.Kc7
>Ka8 9.Ra5#
>  +-  (#9)   Depth: 33   00:00:09  27773kN
>1.Ke3 Kb6 2.Kf4 Kc7 3.Ke5 Kc6 4.Ke6 Kc7 5.Rc5+ Kb6 6.Kd6 Kb7 7.Rb5+ Ka7 8.Kc7
>Ka8 9.Ra5#
>  +-  (#9)   Depth: 33   00:00:09  28319kN
>----------------------------------------------------------------
>
>8/2k5/8/3R4/8/8/5K2/8 w - - 0 1
>
>Analysis by Chess Tiger 14.0:
>
>1.Ke3 Kb6 2.Kd4 Kc6 3.Kc4 Kb6 4.Rc5 Ka6 5.Rb5 Ka7 6.Kc5 Ka6
>  +-  (6.88)   Depth: 12   00:00:00  819kN
>1.Ke3 Kb6 2.Kd4 Kc6 3.Kc4 Kb6 4.Rc5 Ka6 5.Rb5 Ka7 6.Kc5 Ka6 7.Kc6
>  +-  (6.92)   Depth: 13   00:00:00  1063kN
>1.Ke3 Kb6 2.Kd4 Kc6 3.Kc4 Kb6 4.Rc5 Ka6 5.Rb5 Ka7 6.Kc5 Ka6 7.Kc6 Ka7
>  +-  (6.92)   Depth: 14   00:00:01  2096kN
>1.Ke3 Kb6 2.Kd4 Kc6 3.Kc4 Kb6 4.Rc5 Ka6 5.Rb5 Ka7 6.Kc5 Ka6 7.Kc6 Ka7 8.Kc7
>  +-  (6.92)   Depth: 15   00:00:03  5819kN
>1.Ke3
>  +-  (7.82)   Depth: 16   00:00:09  18599kN
>1.Ke3 Kb6
>  +-  (7.82)   Depth: 17   00:00:11  21686kN
>1.Ke3
>  +-  (8.72)   Depth: 17   00:00:11  21690kN
>1.Ke3 Kb6 2.Kd4 Kc6 3.Kc4 Kb6 4.Rc5 Ka6 5.Rb5 Ka7 6.Kc5 Ka6 7.Kc6 Ka7 8.Ra5+ Kb8
>9.Ra4 Kc8
>  +-  (#10)   Depth: 17   00:00:19  36301kN
>1.Ke3 Kb6 2.Kd4 Kc6 3.Kc4 Kb6 4.Rd6+ Kb7 5.Kc5 Kc7 6.Rd5 Kb7 7.Rd7+ Ka6 8.Re7
>Ka5 9.Ra7#
>  +-  (#9)   Depth: 18   00:00:41  76529kN
>
>-----------------------------------------------------------------------
>8/2k5/8/3R4/8/8/5K2/8 w - - 0 1
>
>Analysis by Chess Tiger 15.0:
>
>1.Ke3
>  +-  (6.56)   Depth: 1   00:00:00
>1.Ke3
>  +-  (6.40)   Depth: 1   00:00:00
>1.Ke3 Kc6
>  +-  (6.40)   Depth: 2   00:00:00
>1.Ke3 Kb6 2.Kd4
>  +-  (6.44)   Depth: 3   00:00:00  1kN
>1.Kf3 Kb7 2.Rc5
>  +-  (6.56)   Depth: 3   00:00:00  2kN
>1.Kf3 Kb7 2.Rc5 Kb6
>  +-  (6.56)   Depth: 4   00:00:00  2kN
>1.Kf3 Kb7 2.Rc5 Kb6 3.Rc3
>  +-  (6.60)   Depth: 5   00:00:00  3kN
>1.Kf3 Kb7 2.Rc5 Kb6 3.Rc3 Kb5
>  +-  (6.60)   Depth: 6   00:00:00  5kN
>1.Kf3 Kb7 2.Ke4 Kb6 3.Ke5 Kc6 4.Rd8
>  +-  (6.64)   Depth: 7   00:00:00  8kN
>1.Kf3 Kb7 2.Ke4 Kb6 3.Ke5 Kc6 4.Rd8 Kc7
>  +-  (6.64)   Depth: 8   00:00:00  15kN
>1.Kf3 Kb7 2.Ke4 Kb6 3.Ke5 Kc6 4.Rd8 Kc7 5.Ra8
>  +-  (6.64)   Depth: 9   00:00:00  29kN
>1.Kf3 Kb7 2.Ke4 Kb6 3.Ke5 Kc6 4.Ke6 Kc7 5.Rc5+ Kb6 6.Kd6
>  +-  (6.68)   Depth: 10   00:00:00  46kN
>1.Kf3 Kb7 2.Ke4 Kb6 3.Ke5 Kc6 4.Ke6 Kc7 5.Rc5+ Kb7 6.Kd6 Kb6
>  +-  (6.68)   Depth: 11   00:00:00  82kN
>1.Ke3 Kb6 2.Kd4 Kc6 3.Ke5 Kb6 4.Kd6 Kb7 5.Rb5+ Ka6 6.Rb8 Ka5
>  +-  (6.88)   Depth: 11   00:00:00  103kN
>1.Ke3 Kb6 2.Kd4 Kc6 3.Ke5 Kb6 4.Kd6 Kb7 5.Rb5+ Ka6 6.Rb8 Ka5 7.Rc8
>  +-  (6.88)   Depth: 12   00:00:00  191kN
>1.Ke3 Kb6 2.Kd4 Kc6 3.Ke5 Kb6 4.Kd6 Kb7 5.Rb5+ Ka6 6.Rb8 Ka5 7.Rb7 Ka4
>  +-  (6.88)   Depth: 13   00:00:00  352kN
>1.Ke3 Kb6 2.Kd4 Kc6 3.Ke5 Kb6 4.Kd6 Kb7 5.Rb5+ Ka6 6.Rb8 Ka5 7.Rb7 Ka4 8.Rb8
>  +-  (6.88)   Depth: 14   00:00:00  745kN
>1.Ke3 Kb6 2.Kd4 Kc6 3.Ke5 Kb6 4.Kd6 Kb7 5.Rb5+ Ka6 6.Rb8 Ka5 7.Rb7 Ka4 8.Rb6 Ka5
>  +-  (6.88)   Depth: 15   00:00:00  1519kN
>1.Ke3 Kb6 2.Kd4 Kc6 3.Ke5 Kb6 4.Kd6 Kb7 5.Rb5+ Ka6 6.Rb8 Ka5 7.Rb7 Ka4 8.Rb6 Ka5
>9.Rb8
>  +-  (6.88)   Depth: 16   00:00:01  3170kN
>1.Ke3 Kb6 2.Kd4 Kc6 3.Kc4 Kb6 4.Rc5 Ka6 5.Rb5 Ka7 6.Kd5 Ka6 7.Kc6 Ka7 8.Rc5 Ka6
>9.Kc7
>  +-  (7.78)   Depth: 17   00:00:02  5433kN
>1.Ke3 Kb6 2.Kd4 Kc6 3.Kc4 Kb6 4.Rc5 Ka6 5.Rb5 Ka7 6.Kd5 Ka6 7.Kc6 Ka7 8.Rc5 Ka6
>9.Kc7
>  +-  (#10)   Depth: 17   00:00:02  5522kN
>1.Ke3 Kb6 2.Kd4 Kc6 3.Kc4 Kb6 4.Rc5 Ka6 5.Rb5 Ka7 6.Kd5 Ka6 7.Kc6 Ka7 8.Rc5 Ka6
>9.Kc7
>  +-  (#10)   Depth: 18   00:00:02  6068kN
>1.Ke3 Kb6 2.Kd4 Kc6 3.Kc4 Kb6 4.Rc5 Ka6 5.Rb5 Ka7 6.Kd5 Ka6 7.Kc6 Ka7 8.Rc5 Ka6
>9.Kc7
>  +-  (#10)   Depth: 19   00:00:02  6071kN
>1.Ke3 Kb6 2.Kd4 Kc6 3.Kc4 Kb6 4.Rc5 Ka6 5.Rc6+ Ka7 6.Kb5 Kb8 7.Kb6 Ka8 8.Rc8#
>  +-  (#8)   Depth: 20   00:00:20  42340kN
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------
>8/2k5/8/3R4/8/8/5K2/8 w - - 0 1
>
>Analysis by Shredder 9:
>
>1.Rb5
>  +-  (7.07)   Depth: 1/1   00:00:00
>1.Rb5 Kd6
>  +-  (7.02)   Depth: 2/2   00:00:00
>1.Ke3
>  +-  (7.08)   Depth: 2/2   00:00:00
>1.Ke3 Kc6
>  +-  (7.08)   Depth: 2/2   00:00:00
>1.Ke3 Kc6 2.Kd4
>  +-  (7.12)   Depth: 3/4   00:00:00
>1.Ke3 Kc6 2.Kd4 Kb7
>  +-  (7.23)   Depth: 4/6   00:00:00
>1.Ke3 Kc6 2.Kd4 Kb6 3.Rd6+ Kb5
>  +-  (7.28)   Depth: 5/6   00:00:00
>1.Ke3 Kc6 2.Kd4 Kc7 3.Ke5 Kb7
>  +-  (7.32)   Depth: 6/8   00:00:00
>1.Ke3 Kc6 2.Kd4 Kc7 3.Ke5 Kb6 4.Kd6
>  +-  (7.33)   Depth: 7/8   00:00:00  3kN
>1.Ke3 Kc6 2.Kd4 Kc7 3.Ke5 Kc6 4.Ke6 Kb7
>  +-  (7.32)   Depth: 8/12   00:00:00  6kN
>1.Ke3 Kc6 2.Kd4 Kb6 3.Rd6+ Kb5 4.Kd5 Kb4 5.Rc6 Ka4
>  +-  (7.43)   Depth: 9/12   00:00:00  10kN
>1.Ke3 Kc6 2.Kd4 Kb6 3.Rd6+ Kb5 4.Kd5 Kb4 5.Rc6 Kb3 6.Ra6
>  +-  (7.46)   Depth: 10/15   00:00:00  16kN
>1.Ke3 Kc6 2.Kd4 Kb6 3.Rd6+ Kb5 4.Kd5 Kb4 5.Rc6 Kb3 6.Rc4 Kb2
>  +-  (7.48)   Depth: 11/14   00:00:00  24kN
>1.Ke3 Kc6 2.Kd4 Kb6 3.Rc5 Kb7 4.Kd5 Kb6 5.Rc8 Ka7 6.Rc6 Kb7
>  +-  (7.60)   Depth: 12/18   00:00:00  38kN
>1.Ke3 Kc6 2.Kd4 Kb6 3.Rc5 Kb7 4.Kd5 Kb6 5.Kd6 Kb7 6.Rb5+
>  +-  (7.74)   Depth: 13/17   00:00:00  99kN
>1.Ke3 Kc6 2.Kd4 Kb6 3.Rc5 Kb7 4.Kd5 Kb6 5.Kd6 Kb7 6.Rb5+
>  +-  (7.89)   Depth: 14/21   00:00:00  151kN
>1.Ke3 Kc6
>  +-  (8.14)   Depth: 15/18   00:00:00  212kN
>1.Ke3 Kc6
>  +-  (#150)   Depth: 15/18   00:00:00  213kN
>1.Ke3 Kb7 2.Kd4 Kc8 3.Rd6 Kb8 4.Kc5 Kb7 5.Rd5
>  +-  (#150)   Depth: 15/20   00:00:00  255kN
>1.Ke3 Kb7 2.Kd4 Kc8 3.Rd6 Kb8 4.Kc5 Kb7 5.Rd5
>  +-  (#150)   Depth: 16/24   00:00:00  331kN
>1.Ke3 Kb7 2.Kd4 Kc8 3.Rd6 Kb8 4.Kc5 Kb7 5.Rd5
>  +-  (#150)   Depth: 17/24   00:00:00  457kN
>1.Ke3 Kb7 2.Kd4 Kc8 3.Rd6 Kb8 4.Kc5 Kb7 5.Rd5
>  +-  (#150)   Depth: 18/26   00:00:00  711kN
>1.Ke3 Kb7 2.Kd4 Kc8 3.Rd6 Kb8 4.Kc5 Kb7 5.Rd5
>  +-  (#150)   Depth: 19/26   00:00:01  1250kN
>1.Ke3 Kb7 2.Kd4 Kb6 3.Rc5 Kb7 4.Kd5 Kb6 5.Kd6 Kb7 6.Rb5+ Kc8 7.Rd5
>  +-  (#150)   Depth: 20/28   00:00:01  2237kN
>1.Ke3 Kb7 2.Kd4 Kb6 3.Rc5 Ka6 4.Kd5 Kb7 5.Kd6 Kb6 6.Rh5 Kb7 7.Rb5+ Ka6 8.Kc5
>  +-  (#12)   Depth: 21/30   00:00:03  3996kN
>1.Ke3 Kb7 2.Kd4 Kb6 3.Rc5 Ka6 4.Kd5 Kb7 5.Kd6 Kb6 6.Rh5 Kb7 7.Rb5+
>  +-  (#12)   Depth: 22/30   00:00:04  5651kN
>1.Ke3 Kb7 2.Kd4 Kb6 3.Rc5 Ka6 4.Kd5 Kb7 5.Kd6 Kb6 6.Rh5 Kb7 7.Rb5+
>  +-  (#12)   Depth: 23/32   00:00:07  10314kN
>---------------------------------------------------
>8/2k5/8/3R4/8/8/5K2/8 w - - 0 1
>
>Analysis by Hiarcs 8:
>
>1.Ke3
>  +-  (17.38)   Depth: 1   00:00:00
>1.Ke3 Kc6
>  +-  (17.20)   Depth: 2/7   00:00:00
>1.Rd4 Kc6
>  +-  (17.28)   Depth: 2/7   00:00:00
>1.Rd4 Kc6 2.Ke3
>  +-  (17.16)   Depth: 3/7   00:00:00
>1.Rd4 Kb6 2.Ke3 Kc6
>  +-  (17.34)   Depth: 4/9   00:00:00
>1.Ke3 Kb7
>  +-  (17.41)   Depth: 4/9   00:00:00
>1.Ke3 Kb7 2.Kd4 Kb6
>  +-  (17.56)   Depth: 4/9   00:00:00
>1.Ke3 Kb7 2.Kd4 Kb6 3.Kc4
>  +-  (17.44)   Depth: 5/9   00:00:00  3kN
>1.Ke3 Kb6 2.Kd4 Kc6 3.Kc4
>  +-  (17.59)   Depth: 6/11   00:00:00  11kN
>1.Ke3 Kb6 2.Ke4 Kc7 3.Kd3 Kb6 4.Kc4 Kc7
>  +-  (17.59)   Depth: 7/13   00:00:00  26kN
>1.Ke3 Kb6 2.Kd4 Kc6 3.Kc4 Kb6 4.Rc5 Kb7
>  +-  (17.75)   Depth: 8/15   00:00:00  74kN
>1.Ke3 Kb6 2.Ke4 Kc7 3.Ke5 Kc6 4.Kd4 Kb6 5.Rc5
>  +-  (17.75)   Depth: 9/15   00:00:00  175kN
>1.Ke3 Kb6
>  +-  (18.00)   Depth: 10/19   00:00:00  331kN
>1.Ke3 Kc6
>  +-  (18.00)   Depth: 10/19   00:00:00  410kN
>1.Ke3 Kc6 2.Kd4 Kb6 3.Rd6+ Kb5 4.Rh6 Kb4 5.Rb6+ Ka4 6.Kc4 Ka5 7.Rb5+ Ka4
>  +-  (18.06)   Depth: 11/19   00:00:00  690kN
>1.Ke3 Kc6 2.Kd4 Kb6 3.Rd6+ Kb5 4.Rh6 Kb4 5.Rb6+ Ka4 6.Kc4 Ka3 7.Rb4 Ka2
>  +-  (18.13)   Depth: 12/21   00:00:01  1242kN
>1.Ke3 Kc6 2.Kd4 Kb6 3.Kc4 Kc6 4.Rd2 Kb6 5.Rd6+ Kb7 6.Kc5 Kb8 7.Kc6 Kc8
>  +-  (18.19)   Depth: 13/23   00:00:01  2168kN
>1.Ke3 Kb7 2.Kd3 Kb8 3.Rc5 Ka8 4.Rb5 Ka7 5.Kd4 Ka6 6.Kc4
>  +-  (#19)   Depth: 14/23   00:00:02  3181kN
>1.Ke3 Kb6 2.Kd4
>  +-  (#13)   Depth: 14/23   00:00:02  3612kN
>
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>8/2k5/8/3R4/8/8/5K2/8 w - - 0 1
>
>Analysis by Goliath Light 1.5:
>
>1.Kf3 Kc6 2.Ke4
>  +-  (7.59)   Depth: 6/7   00:00:00
>1.Kf3 Kb6 2.Ke4 Kc6
>  +-  (7.59)   Depth: 6/7   00:00:00  2kN
>1.Ke3 Kb6 2.Kf3 Kc7
>  +-  (7.63)   Depth: 6/9   00:00:00  5kN
>1.Ke3 Kb6 2.Kf3 Kc7
>  +-  (7.63)   Depth: 7/9   00:00:00  7kN
>1.Ke3 Kb6 2.Kf3 Kc7 3.Ke4
>  +-  (7.66)   Depth: 7/9   00:00:00  9kN
>1.Ke3 Kb6 2.Kf3 Kc7 3.Ke4
>  +-  (7.66)   Depth: 8/9   00:00:00  24kN
>1.Ke3 Kb6 2.Kf3 Kc7 3.Ke4 Kc6
>  +-  (7.59)   Depth: 8/9   00:00:00  29kN
>1.Ke3 Kb6 2.Kf3 Kc7 3.Ke4 Kc6
>  +-  (7.59)   Depth: 9/11   00:00:00  64kN
>1.Ke3 Kb6 2.Kd4 Kc6 3.Kc4 Kc7 4.Kc5
>  +-  (7.69)   Depth: 9/11   00:00:00  79kN
>1.Ke3 Kb6 2.Kd4 Kc6 3.Kc4 Kc7 4.Kc5
>  +-  (7.69)   Depth: 10/13   00:00:00  172kN
>1.Ke3 Kb6 2.Kd4 Kc6 3.Kc4 Kb7 4.Kc5 Kc7
>  +-  (7.69)   Depth: 10/13   00:00:00  202kN
>1.Ke3 Kb6 2.Kd4 Kc6 3.Kc4 Kb7 4.Kc5 Kc7
>  +-  (7.69)   Depth: 11/14   00:00:00  379kN
>1.Ke3 Kb6 2.Kd4 Kc6 3.Kc4 Kb7 4.Rc5 Kb6 5.Kd4 Kb7 6.Kd5
>  +-  (7.79)   Depth: 11/15   00:00:00  452kN
>1.Ke3 Kb6 2.Kd4 Kc6 3.Kc4 Kb7 4.Rc5 Kb6 5.Kd4 Kb7 6.Kd5
>  +-  (7.79)   Depth: 12/15   00:00:00  747kN
>1.Ke3 Kb6 2.Kd4 Kc6 3.Kc4 Kb7 4.Rc5 Kb6 5.Kd4 Kb7 6.Kc4 Kb6 7.Kd4
>  +-  (7.79)   Depth: 12/16   00:00:00  889kN
>1.Ke3 Kb6 2.Kd4 Kc6 3.Kc4 Kb7 4.Rc5 Kb6 5.Kd4 Kb7 6.Kc4 Kb6 7.Kd4
>  +-  (7.79)   Depth: 13/17   00:00:00  1305kN
>1.Ke3 Kb6 2.Kd4 Kc6 3.Kc4 Kb7 4.Rd6 Kc7 5.Kc5 Kb7 6.Rd7+
>  +-  (7.91)   Depth: 13/17   00:00:00  1520kN
>1.Ke3 Kb6 2.Kd4 Kc6 3.Kc4 Kb7 4.Rd6 Kc7 5.Kc5 Kb7 6.Rd7+
>  +-  (7.91)   Depth: 14/19   00:00:00  2105kN
>1.Ke3 Kb6 2.Kd4 Kc6 3.Kc4 Kb7 4.Rd6 Kc7 5.Kc5 Kb7 6.Rd7+
>  +-  (7.94)   Depth: 14/19   00:00:00  2438kN
>1.Ke3 Kb6 2.Kd4 Kc6 3.Kc4 Kb7 4.Rd6 Kc7 5.Kc5 Kb7 6.Rd7+
>  +-  (7.94)   Depth: 15/21   00:00:00  3272kN
>1.Ke3 Kb6 2.Kd4 Kc6 3.Kc4 Kb7 4.Rd6 Kc7 5.Kc5 Kb7 6.Rd7+ Kb8 7.Kb5 Kc8 8.Kc6 Kb8
>9.Rd5 Kc8 10.Rd6
>  +-  (7.99)   Depth: 15/21   00:00:01  3830kN
>1.Ke3 Kb6 2.Kd4 Kc6 3.Kc4 Kb7 4.Rd6 Kc7 5.Kc5 Kb7 6.Rd7+ Kb8 7.Kb5 Kc8 8.Kc6 Kb8
>9.Rd5 Kc8 10.Rd6
>  +-  (7.99)   Depth: 16/22   00:00:01  4950kN
>1.Ke3 Kb6 2.Kd4 Kc6 3.Kc4 Kb7 4.Rd6 Kc7 5.Kc5 Kb7
>  +-  (7.99)   Depth: 16/22   00:00:05  21858kN
>1.Ke3 Kb6 2.Kd4 Kc6 3.Kc4 Kb7 4.Rd6 Kc7 5.Kc5 Kb7
>  +-  (7.99)   Depth: 17/23   00:00:06  23409kN
>1.Ke3 Kb6 2.Kd4 Kc6 3.Kc4 Kb7 4.Rd6 Kc7 5.Kc5 Kb7
>  +-  (#30)   Depth: 17/23   00:00:06  23423kN
>1.Ke3 Kc6 2.Kd4 Kb6 3.Kc4 Kc6 4.Rd4 Kb6 5.Rd6+ Kb7 6.Kb5 Kc7 7.Kc5 Kb7 8.Rd7+
>Kb8 9.Kb5 Kc8 10.Kc6 Kb8 11.Kb6 Kc8 12.Rd5 Kb8 13.Rd8#
>  +-  (#12)   Depth: 17/23   00:00:06  25291kN
>
>
>All find mate -- some do it instantly, but none take over 20 seconds...
>
>Now let's use Fruit 2.2.1 in the same conditions (no egtb):
>
>8/2k5/8/3R4/8/8/5K2/8 w - - 0 1
>
>Analysis by Fruit 2.2.1:
>
>1.Ke3
>  +-  (5.45)   Depth: 1/1   00:00:00
>1.Ke3 Kc6
>  +-  (5.57)   Depth: 2/2   00:00:00
>1.Ke3 Kc6 2.Ke4
>  +-  (5.45)   Depth: 3/4   00:00:00
>1.Kg3 Kb7 2.Kf4
>  +-  (5.55)   Depth: 3/6   00:00:00
>1.Kg3 Kb7 2.Kf4 Kc6
>  +-  (5.58)   Depth: 4/6   00:00:00
>1.Ke3 Kc6 2.Ke4 Kc7
>  +-  (5.76)   Depth: 4/6   00:00:00
>1.Ke3 Kc6 2.Ke4 Kc7 3.Rc5+ Kd6
>  +-  (5.57)   Depth: 5/8   00:00:00
>1.Ke3 Kc6 2.Kd4 Kb6 3.Rc5 Kb7
>  +-  (5.85)   Depth: 6/10   00:00:00  13kN
>1.Ke3 Kc6 2.Kd4 Kb6 3.Rd6+ Kb5 4.Rg6 Kb4 5.Rb6+ Ka4
>  +-  (5.89)   Depth: 7/11   00:00:00  58kN
>1.Ke3 Kc6 2.Kd4 Kb6 3.Rd6+ Kb5 4.Rg6 Kb4 5.Rb6+ Ka5
>  +-  (5.89)   Depth: 8/13   00:00:01  238kN
>1.Ke3 Kc6 2.Kd4 Kb6 3.Rd7 Kb5 4.Rd6 Kb4 5.Rb6+ Ka5
>  +-  (5.89)   Depth: 9/14   00:00:01  972kN
>1.Ke3 Kc6 2.Kd4 Kb6 3.Ke5 Kc7 4.Rc5+ Kd7 5.Rc1 Ke7 6.Rc7+ Kd8
>  +-  (6.25)   Depth: 10/18   00:00:01  3671kN
>1.Ke3 Kc6 2.Kd4 Kb6 3.Ke5 Kc7 4.Rb5 Kd7 5.Rc5 Ke7 6.Rc7+ Kd8
>  +-  (6.25)   Depth: 11/19   00:00:05  13571kN
>1.Rh5 Kd6 2.Ke3 Ke6 3.Kd4 Kd6 4.Rh6+ Ke7 5.Rc6 Ke8 6.Rc7 Kd8
>  +-  (6.26)   Depth: 11/20   00:00:18  48869kN
>1.Rh5 Kd6 2.Ke2 Kd7 3.Kd3 Kc6 4.Rh6+ Kc7 5.Rg6 Kb8 6.Rg7 Kc8 7.Kd4
>  +-  (6.14)   Depth: 12/20   00:00:28  77398kN
>1.Ke3 Kc6 2.Ke4 Kc7 3.Ke5 Kc6 4.Ke6 Kc7 5.Rd6 Kc8 6.Rd7 Kb8
>  +-  (6.33)   Depth: 12/20   00:00:30  83851kN
>1.Ke3 Kc6 2.Kd4 Kb6 3.Rc5 Kb7 4.Ke5 Ka7 5.Rc6 Kb8 6.Rc4 Ka8 7.Rc7
>  +-  (6.45)   Depth: 13/22   00:01:43  279150kN
>
>
>Analysis stopped after 10 minutes -- all analysis on an A64 @ 2.7GHz with 512MB
>hash (except CT 14 due to hash size control limitations.)
>
>Please -- will the die-hard "EGTB files are a waste" believers please stand-up.
>
>Regards,
>
>Enrico.


I think EGTBs are useful, but I think your examples illustrate the opposite of
what you are trying to prove. :)

Good chess engines are not optimised mate-finders, but optimised win-finders,
and there is a big difference!

So whether the programs found mate instantly, let alone the quickest mate, or
not is irrelevant.

In all your examples, the programs found the fastest winning move (Ke3 - and I
don't need to check that, do I - surely everything else must be at least 1 move
slower?) in much less than one second.  Probably in just a few thousandths of a
second.  And all gave it a high evaluation.  Only one (J9) ever wavered from
that choice Ke3.

So, even if EGTBs were being used in the search itself, the presence of EGTBs
would not have helped at all in this example. Chess Challenger 7 could not
handle KRK, but we have moved on since then.

Simply put, you need a more complex example.  :)

Best,

A.S.



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