Author: Drexel,Michael
Date: 05:12:56 12/23/05
Go up one level in this thread
On December 23, 2005 at 07:44:54, Uri Blass wrote: >On December 23, 2005 at 05:40:21, Drexel,Michael wrote: > >>On December 22, 2005 at 21:11:01, Graham Banks wrote: >> >>>Before you look at my brief assesment of each position, please be aware that I'm >>>not being critical of Harry here. >>>Every book, professional or amateur, has some dubious lines. >>> >>> >>>>>>>[Event "EventX"] >>>>>>>[Site "SiteX"] >>>>>>>[Date "2005.10.30"] >>>>>>>[Round "?"] >>>>>>>[White "PlayerY"] >>>>>>>[Black "PlayerX"] >>>>>>>[Result "*"] >>>>>>>[ECO "B20"] >>>>>>>[PlyCount "18"] >>>>>>>[EventDate "2005.??.??"] >>>>>>> >>>>>>>1. e4 c5 2. c4 g6 3. d3 Bg7 4. f4 d6 5. h3 Nc6 6. Nf3 e6 7. Nc3 Nge7 8. g4 h5 >>>>>>>9. gxh5 Rxh5 * >>> >>>Definitely dubious. >>>I've had one game go down this line: Fruit 2.2 v Ktulu 7.5 (1-0) >>> >>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>[Event "EventX"] >>>>>>>[Site "SiteX"] >>>>>>>[Date "2005.10.27"] >>>>>>>[Round "?"] >>>>>>>[White "PlayerX"] >>>>>>>[Black "PlayerY"] >>>>>>>[Result "*"] >>>>>>>[ECO "D30"] >>>>>>>[PlyCount "17"] >>>>>>>[EventDate "2005.??.??"] >>>>>>> >>>>>>>1. d4 d5 2. c4 c6 3. e3 Nf6 4. Nf3 e6 5. a3 Be7 6. Nbd2 O-O 7. b3 b6 8. Bb2 Ne8 >>>>>>>9. Bd3 * >>> >>>Not too bad. I could live with this one. >> >>Yeah, a computer will play Nf6 here next. Do you play Nf6-e8-f6 maneuvers in >>your games too? >> >>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>[Event "EventX"] >>>>>>>[Site "SiteX"] >>>>>>>[Date "2005.10.30"] >>>>>>>[Round "?"] >>>>>>>[White "PlayerX"] >>>>>>>[Black "PlayerY"] >>>>>>>[Result "*"] >>>>>>>[ECO "B20"] >>>>>>>[PlyCount "16"] >>>>>>>[EventDate "2005.??.??"] >>>>>>> >>>>>>>1. e4 c5 2. c4 d6 3. Ne2 Nc6 4. d4 Bd7 5. Nbc3 g6 6. d5 Ne5 7. Ng3 Bg7 8. Be2 >>>>>>>h5 * >>> >>>Another dubious position. >>>Two games I've had: >>>Fruit 2.2 v CM10th Warrior (1-0) >>>CM10th Warrior v Ktulu 7.5 (draw) >>> >>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>[Event "EventX"] >>>>>>>[Site "SiteX"] >>>>>>>[Date "2005.10.27"] >>>>>>>[Round "?"] >>>>>>>[White "PlayerY"] >>>>>>>[Black "PlayerX"] >>>>>>>[Result "*"] >>>>>>>[ECO "D02"] >>>>>>>[PlyCount "16"] >>>>>>>[EventDate "2005.??.??"] >>>>>>> >>>>>>>1. d4 Nf6 2. g3 d5 3. Bg2 Nc6 4. Nf3 e6 5. O-O Bd7 6. Nc3 Bb4 7. Ne5 O-O 8. Bg5 >>>>>>>Be8 * >>> >>>The resulting position is fairly equal, so probably okay. >>>One game: Ktulu 7.5 v Fruit 2.2 (1-0) >>> >>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>[Event "EventX"] >>>>>>>[Site "SiteX"] >>>>>>>[Date "2005.10.30"] >>>>>>>[Round "?"] >>>>>>>[White "PlayerX"] >>>>>>>[Black "PlayerY"] >>>>>>>[Result "*"] >>>>>>>[ECO "E60"] >>>>>>>[PlyCount "17"] >>>>>>>[EventDate "2005.??.??"] >>>>>>> >>>>>>>1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 g6 3. Bf4 c5 4. e3 Bg7 5. Nc3 cxd4 6. exd4 O-O 7. Qd2 d5 8. Nf3 >>>>>>>Nc6 9. cxd5 * >>> >>>Nothing wrong with the position that arises in my opinion. >> >>Black is better already after 9...Nxd5. White has not active piece play as >>compenstaion for the weak d4 pawn. >> >>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>[Event "EventX"] >>>>>>>[Site "SiteX"] >>>>>>>[Date "2005.10.26"] >>>>>>>[Round "?"] >>>>>>>[White "PlayerX"] >>>>>>>[Black "PlayerY"] >>>>>>>[Result "*"] >>>>>>>[ECO "A00"] >>>>>>>[PlyCount "16"] >>>>>>>[EventDate "2005.??.??"] >>>>>>> >>>>>>>1. Nf3 c5 2. Nc3 Nc6 3. d4 cxd4 4. Nxd4 g6 5. Bf4 Bg7 6. e3 Nf6 7. Be2 d6 8. g4 >>>>>>>O-O * >>> >>>I'm okay with this one too. >> >>8.g4 is horrible. It only weakens the position. I don't know where this Nonsense >>move comes from. According to BigDatabase 2005 this line was never played. No >>surprise... >> >>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>[Event "EventX"] >>>>>>>[Site "SiteX"] >>>>>>>[Date "2005.10.27"] >>>>>>>[Round "?"] >>>>>>>[White "PlayerX"] >>>>>>>[Black "PlayerX"] >>>>>>>[Result "*"] >>>>>>>[ECO "D30"] >>>>>>>[PlyCount "17"] >>>>>>>[EventDate "2005.??.??"] >>>>>>> >>>>>>>1. d4 e6 2. c4 d5 3. e3 Nf6 4. Qa4+ Nc6 5. cxd5 Nxd5 6. Nc3 Bb4 7. Qc2 Ba5 8. >>>>>>>Nf3 Ncb4 9. Qb3 * >>> >>>Another dubious one. >>>One game: Shredder 9 v Ktulu 7.5 (1-0) >>> >>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>[Event "EventX"] >>>>>>>[Site "SiteX"] >>>>>>>[Date "2005.10.30"] >>>>>>>[Round "?"] >>>>>>>[White "PlayerY"] >>>>>>>[Black "PlayerX"] >>>>>>>[Result "*"] >>>>>>>[ECO "E01"] >>>>>>>[PlyCount "18"] >>>>>>>[EventDate "2005.??.??"] >>>>>>> >>>>>>>1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 e6 3. g3 d5 4. e3 c5 5. Nc3 cxd4 6. exd4 dxc4 7. Bxc4 Nc6 8. >>>>>>>Nf3 Be7 9. O-O O-O * >>> >>> >>>I'm okay with this position. >> >>White is fine if he could play 10.g3-g2, but unfortunately this is not allowed. >> >>Michael > >Rybka slightly positional believes that white is slighly better. >I wonder if engines could convince rybka in games that she is wrong? > >I found only 2 games with this position in the CEGT games and rybka is winning >with white and black(I also give analysis by rybka slighly positional after the >games. No surprise, Naum and Pharaon are much weaker than Rybka and the position is not that much worse for white. >Here are the games >I think that it can be productive if you comment the CEGT games and tell us >about the mistake of engines and why they lose better positions(assuming that >black is really better). I do not want to analyse this irrelevant line now in detail but in the Pharaon game 11...Sxd4? was a huge mistake. 11...Bb7 Rfd1 (or Rad1) Nb4 followed by Nbd5 is correct. Black has a small advantage. Michael >Note that I claim nothing about the position. >My first impression is also that black has better position but >I consider myself too weak player to trust my first impression. > >[Event "CEGT 40/40 2GHz"] >[Site "CEGT"] >[Date "2005.12.09"] >[Round "31.1"] >[White "Rybka 1.0 Beta 32-bit"] >[Black "Pharaon 3.3"] >[Result "1-0"] >[ECO "E00"] >[PlyCount "137"] >[EventDate "2005.??.??"] > >1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 e6 3. g3 d5 4. e3 c5 5. Nc3 cxd4 6. exd4 dxc4 7. Bxc4 Nc6 8. >Nf3 Be7 9. O-O O-O 10. Bf4 b6 11. Qe2 Nxd4 12. Nxd4 Qxd4 13. Rfd1 Qc5 14. Ne4 >Qa5 15. Nxf6+ Bxf6 16. Bb5 a6 17. Bc6 Ra7 18. b4 Qxb4 19. Bd6 Qxd6 20. Rxd6 >Bxa1 21. Qe3 a5 22. Rd1 Bf6 23. Qxb6 Ra6 24. Qc7 a4 25. f4 a3 26. g4 h6 27. h4 >Bxh4 28. g5 Rxc6 29. Qxc6 hxg5 30. Rb1 e5 31. Rb8 Be6 32. Rxf8+ Kxf8 33. Qa8+ >Ke7 34. Qxa3+ Kf6 35. fxe5+ Kxe5 36. Qe3+ Kd5 37. a4 g4 38. Qd3+ Ke5 39. a5 Be7 >40. Qb5+ Bd5 41. a6 f5 42. Qb2+ Ke6 43. Qxg7 Bc5+ 44. Kf1 Bf3 45. a7 Be4 46. >Qg6+ Ke5 47. Qe8+ Kf4 48. Qb8+ Kf3 49. a8=Q Bxa8 50. Qxa8+ Kf4 51. Qd5 Ba7 52. >Qd6+ Kf3 53. Qc6+ Ke3 54. Qc3+ Ke4 55. Qc2+ Ke3 56. Qf2+ Kd3 57. Qxf5+ Ke3 58. >Qf2+ Ke4 59. Qxa7 Kd5 60. Qd7+ Ke5 61. Qxg4 Kd5 62. Kf2 Ke5 63. Ke3 Kd6 64. Kd4 >Kc6 65. Qe6+ Kb5 66. Qd7+ Ka5 67. Kc5 Ka6 68. Qe7 Ka5 69. Qa7# 1-0 > >[Event "CEGT 40/40 2GHz"] >[Site "CEGT"] >[Date "2005.12.04"] >[Round "3.2"] >[White "Naum 1.82"] >[Black "Rybka 1.0 Beta 32-bit"] >[Result "0-1"] >[ECO "E00"] >[PlyCount "128"] >[EventDate "2005.??.??"] > >1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 e6 3. g3 d5 4. e3 c5 5. Nc3 cxd4 6. exd4 dxc4 7. Bxc4 Nc6 8. >Nf3 Be7 9. O-O O-O 10. Bd3 b6 11. a3 Bb7 12. Be3 Rc8 13. Rc1 g6 14. Rc2 Ng4 15. >Qe2 Qd7 16. Bf4 Rfd8 17. Rd1 Nf6 18. h3 Qe8 19. Ba6 Bxa6 20. Qxa6 Kg7 21. Be3 >Na5 22. b4 Nc4 23. Rdc1 Nxe3 24. fxe3 Rd7 25. Nb5 Rxc2 26. Rxc2 Qa8 27. Ne5 Qe4 >28. Re2 Rxd4 29. Nxd4 Qxe5 30. Kh2 Bd6 31. Rg2 Qxe3 32. Nc2 Qc3 33. Qe2 Nh5 34. >Qe3 Bxg3+ 35. Rxg3 Qxc2+ 36. Rg2 Qc7+ 37. Kg1 Nf4 38. Rf2 e5 39. Kh2 Ne6 40. h4 >f5 41. h5 e4+ 42. Kg1 Qe5 43. hxg6 f4 44. Qh3 h5 45. Rf1 e3 46. Qg2 Ng5 47. >Qb7+ Kh6 48. g7 e2 49. g8=N+ Kg6 50. Ne7+ Kf6 51. Nd5+ Kf5 52. Qc8+ Ne6 53. Re1 >Qd4+ 54. Kg2 Qxd5+ 55. Kf2 f3 56. Qg8 Ke4 57. Qg6+ Kd4 58. Qg3 Ng5 59. Qf4+ Kc3 >60. Qc1+ Kb3 61. Qb1+ Kxa3 62. Qa1+ Kb3 63. Rb1+ Kc4 64. Qa2+ Kd4 0-1 > > > > >New game - Fruit 2.2, 38'/40+38'/40+38'/40 >[D]r1bq1rk1/pp2bppp/2n1pn2/8/2BP4/2N2NP1/PP3P1P/R1BQ1RK1 w - - 0 1 > >Analysis by Rybka 1.0 Beta 32-bit: > >10.Bf4 > = (0.11) Depth: 3 00:00:00 >10.Bf4 > = (0.08) Depth: 4 00:00:00 >10.Bf4 Bd7 > = (0.07) Depth: 5 00:00:00 >10.Bf4 Bd7 11.d5 > = (0.12) Depth: 6 00:00:00 23kN >10.Bf4 b6 11.Qe2 Bb7 > = (0.10) Depth: 7 00:00:01 81kN >10.Bf4 b6 11.Qe2 Bb7 12.Rfd1 > = (0.09) Depth: 8 00:00:01 118kN >10.Bf4 b6 11.Rc1 Bb7 12.a3 Rc8 > = (0.05) Depth: 9 00:00:03 219kN >10.Bf4 b6 11.Qe2 Bb7 12.Rfd1 Nb4 13.Ne5 > = (0.08) Depth: 10 00:00:09 669kN >10.Bf4 b6 11.Qe2 Bb7 12.Rfd1 Na5 13.Bd3 Rc8 > = (0.07) Depth: 11 00:00:15 1069kN >10.Bf4 b6 11.Qe2 Bb7 12.Rfd1 Na5 13.Bd3 Rc8 14.Rac1 > = (0.09) Depth: 12 00:00:33 2299kN >10.Bf4 b6 11.Qe2 Bb7 12.Rfd1 Na5 13.Bd3 Rc8 14.Rac1 Nd5 > = (0.04) Depth: 13 00:01:02 4259kN >10.Re1 Qb6 11.Na4 Qb4 12.Bd3 Rd8 13.Bd2 Qd6 14.Bf4 Qd7 > = (0.09) Depth: 13 00:02:53 11495kN >10.Re1 Qb6 11.Na4 Qb4 12.Bd3 Rd8 13.Bd2 Qd6 14.Bf4 Qd7 > = (0.09) Depth: 14 00:03:22 13436kN >10.Re1 b6 11.d5 Na5 12.Bd3 exd5 13.Ne5 Bb7 14.Bf4 d4 > = (0.04) Depth: 15 00:06:49 26235kN >10.Bf4 b6 11.Qa4 Bd7 12.Rad1 h6 13.Qc2 Rc8 14.Qe2 g5 > = (0.08) Depth: 15 00:08:28 32662kN >10.Bf4 b6 11.Qa4 Bd7 12.Rad1 Re8 13.Rfe1 a6 14.Qc2 Nb4 > = (0.10) Depth: 16 00:15:05 56817kN > >(, 23.12.2005)
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