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Subject: Re: Not using tablebases helped Junior5 to win a game in mclane's tourna

Author: blass uri

Date: 23:30:10 03/28/99

Go up one level in this thread



On March 28, 1999 at 20:34:41, Paulo Soares wrote:

>On March 28, 1999 at 19:01:19, James T. Walker wrote:
>
>>On March 28, 1999 at 13:54:58, blass uri wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>On March 28, 1999 at 13:46:49, José de Jesús García Ruvalcaba wrote:
>>>
>>>>On March 28, 1999 at 13:30:30, blass uri wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>On March 28, 1999 at 13:19:16, José de Jesús García Ruvalcaba wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>On March 28, 1999 at 05:46:46, blass uri wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>I looked in gambitsofrt forum
>>>>>>>and I found that Junior5 won Wchess2000 in mclane's tournament
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Junior got a drawn KQP vs KQ
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>8/8/6Q1/3p4/1K1k4/8/8/7q b - - 0 1
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Junior5 did not use tablebases and played Qe1+
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Junior5 won after a mistake of wchess2000 (Kb5)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Tablebases tell Junior5 to play Ke3? Qg5+ Ke2 and black is losing the pawn after
>>>>>>>Kc5.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Uri
>>>>>>
>>>>>>	That is what I call poor tablebase handling. Tablebases should never decrase
>>>>>>playing strength when they are probed at the root. Is this a problem of Junior?
>>>>>>or has something to do with the tablebases?
>>>>>
>>>>>No, it is a problem of Fritz5
>>>>>Junior is using tablebases of Fritz5 in the ssdf games and it is not fair.
>>>>>
>>>>>The original Junior5 does not use tablebases.
>>>>>
>>>>>Uri
>>>>
>>>>	I do not understand the strange relationship between Junior5 and Fritz5. Could
>>>>you please elaborate? Why does Junior use Fritz's tablebases? Is it being
>>>>handicapped by Fritz's poor tablebase handling?
>>>
>>>I asked the ssdf guys about this and I told them that I think that it should not
>>>use the tablebases and Amir Ban replied that it is impossible to use the
>>>autoplayer for Junior5 without the tablebases of Fritz5(In the Fritz5 CD).
>>>
>>>chessbase is quilty about this strange relationship.
>>>
>>>I believe that Junior5 is handicapped by Fritz's poor tablebase handling but I
>>>am not sure about it because the tablebases can sometimes be productive .
>>>
>>>Uri
>>
>>Hello Uri,
>>It's a simple matter of clicking the "Use endgame CD" box under the "Load
>>engine" menu which is under the "Levels" menu to turn the endgame CD off or on.
>>The CD has to be in the tray to run auto232 but it does not have to be used for
>>endgame play.  Also you can click the "Engine choice" box under "Engines" menu
>>which is also under the "Levels" menu to turn off the endgame CD ROM.  Also I
>>have seen Junior 5 win games because of the endgame CD ROM so I doubt if it
>>makes much difference.  Also it is no more of Fritz's problem than it is Junior
>>5 or Nimzo 99's problem.  It is the CD ROM's problem since all three have the
>>problem while using the CD ROM.
>>I still think Junior 5 and Nimzo 99 should not use the CD ROM because it is not
>>a part of the package and the programs run fine without it.  As I said they need
>>that CD to use the auto232 but that's all.
>>Jim Walker
>
>
>Jim,
>
>I tested the position with Fritz5.32( Version March/99,
>with tablebases), see below:
>
>1... Ke3 2. Qb6+ d4 3. Qe6+ Kd2 4. Qf7 d3 5. Qg7
>Kc1 6. Qe5?? (6. Qa1+ Wins.).

You are right the tablebases of Fritz know about win for the weaker side only if
the weaker side can win by  capture.

It is usually the case so I did not notice it.

In this position the tablebases show Qh5 instead of Qc8#(Qc8# is in the moves
but not the first move)

I see that the results in the tablebases of Fritz5 are probably based on
thompson's tablebases also in KQP vs KQ

Uri




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