Author: Stuart Cracraft
Date: 16:05:25 01/05/06
Go up one level in this thread
On January 04, 2006 at 21:02:50, Vincent Diepeveen wrote: >On January 04, 2006 at 14:16:58, Stuart Cracraft wrote: > >>On January 03, 2006 at 20:26:51, Vincent Diepeveen wrote: >> >>>There is at least a 30 tricks which i'm using in diep where i hear no one about. >>>And please realize, diep has a very pathetic search when compared to certain >>>other engines. >>> >>>The basic concepts are nullmove R=3, transposition tables and worlds biggest >>>evaluation function. >>> >>>Vincent >> >> >>Then you are in a good position to evaluate what is Rybka, why is Rybka >>and most importantly how is Rybka. > >Why not read some of my postings and those of GCP of past few days? > >Vincent > > >>You have extremely large evaluation function - this is rumored of Rybka. >> >>Everybody seems to have nullmove R=2 or 3 these days and transposition tables >>are old hat. Nothing new there. >> >>The newness seems to be the search-style of Rybka with its large evaluation. > >We all stand on the shoulders of giants. > >>I would hazard a guess at the search style being key in Rybka. > >>He is searching with probabilities, conspiracy-number search, something like >>that. McAllister didn't come up with great practical outcome for CNS and >>I don't think anyone else has. > >What in his assembly code makes you think that? >He's using PVS nowadays according to Chrilly, so that refutes your CNS theory :) > >Do you realize i wrote a CNS (conspiracy number search) version of diep, years >ago? > >It played like major shit. Couldn't even solve simplistic tactics, >and had very inconsistent search. A major problem was getting mainlines. > >CNS has a huge overhead for things that give in normal depth limited alfabeta a >direct cutoff, without too much overhead. > >CNS theoretic problem is that it searches along your evaluation function. What >your evaluation function already understands, you search deeper. What it doesn't >understand, it cuts off. > >So CNS never corrects the evaluation function by search. > >History pruning of course has a similar disadvantage. > >>So what is this. >> >>If I use probabilities for evaluation at terminal nodes, mapping say 5 >>pawns to a certain win and grading it down, similar to a sigmoid or tanh, > >What have neural net functions to do with CSN? > >>quite similar to what we do for the learning function in temporal differences >>(which works fine by the way), > >TD learning is the biggest nonsense on the planet of course. > >Get Fruit 2.1, set all parameters to 0, go tune it with TD, and it will play >hundreds of points worse. > >Don't cheat by limiting the parameter domain of certain parameters, nor use its >initial startup values. > >>then my evaluation is probabilistic. >>How does this help me in search? Why is it better? I should re-read >>McAllister's paper but it was not probabilistic as I recall though it's >>been many, many years. > >CNS was an original attempt, but completely failed in all respects. > >P.Conners has been buried very very deep because of that. >Always when i emailed him a FEN file or something to run on conners, in order to >compare its output it with my own CNS implementation, i never got answer back. > >>Probabilistic evaluation is something to think about as the rumor is that >>the top program (Rybka) is using it, besides its large evaluation. > >You know, i start to get more and more amazed how much irrelevant suggestions a >single person can post in 1 posting. > >>I understandyour point that when enough people do it, it leaks out. Commercial >>is always ahead of the rest, no question about it. > >>But the point of this board, one at least, is to help accelerate the process. >>What harm is it to anyone? >> >>Does anyone actually make a living for very long on computer chess coding? >>I think not. > >You sure will never. > >Vincent > >>Greetings, >> >>Stuart Vincent - I find your response above highly offensive and call upon the moderator to respond to this thread and your post. Stuart
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