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Subject: Re: Hiarcs 7.32 and Chess Tiger 15

Author: Vasik Rajlich

Date: 00:59:04 01/07/06

Go up one level in this thread


On January 06, 2006 at 16:27:12, Albert Silver wrote:

>>>>Your title is misleading so I changed it in my reply.
>>>>My opinion is that Rybka searches x+2 plies when it claims to search x plies.
>>>>
>>>>From my experience it can see at fixed depth of 1 ply things that other programs
>>>>see at fixed depth of 3 plies
>
>Hiarcs sees it in 2 plies, and Chess Tiger 15 sees it in 1.
>
>>>>Here is an example
>>>>
>>>>[D]3k2r1/ppb5/3p4/r2N1p2/8/8/1P6/1K2RB1R b - - 0 1
>
>Analysis by Hiarcs 7.32:
>
>1...Rxd5
>  -+  (-3.62)   Depth: 1   00:00:00
>1...Rxd5 2.Bc4
>  -+  (-3.29)   Depth: 2/4   00:00:00
>1...Rxd5 2.Bc4 Ba5 3.Bxd5 Bxe1 4.Bxg8
>  +-  (2.07)   Depth: 2/5   00:00:00
>1...a6 2.Bc4
>  ±  (0.74)   Depth: 2/7   00:00:00
>1...Rf8 2.Bc4
>  ²  (0.67)   Depth: 2/11   00:00:00
>1...Bb6 2.Nxb6 axb6
>  ²  (0.55)   Depth: 2/11   00:00:00
>
>
>Analysis by Chess Tiger 15.0:
>
>1...Rxd5
>  ²  (0.30)   Depth: 1   00:00:00
>1...Rxd5
>  -+  (-3.12)   Depth: 1   00:00:00
>1...Rxd5
>  +-  (2.74)   Depth: 1   00:00:00
>1...f4 2.Nxf4
>  +-  (1.80)   Depth: 1   00:00:00
>1...Rg3
>  ±  (1.14)   Depth: 1   00:00:00
>1...Rc5
>  ±  (1.10)   Depth: 1   00:00:00
>1...Rc5 2.Nf6
>  ±  (0.92)   Depth: 2   00:00:00
>1...Rc5 2.Nf4 Re5
>  ±  (1.08)   Depth: 3   00:00:00  1kN
>
>(Silver, Private 06.01.2006)
>

Very nice - my hat is off to Christophe. It's a pity that Tiger development
seems to have stopped.

Vas

>
>[D]3k2r1/pp1b4/3p4/r2N1p2/8/8/1P6/1K2RB1R b - - 0 1
>
>Analysis by Hiarcs 7.32:
>
>1...Rxd5
>  -+  (-3.79)   Depth: 1   00:00:00
>1...Rxd5 2.Bc4
>  -+  (-3.45)   Depth: 2/4   00:00:00
>1...Rxd5 2.Bc4 Bc6 3.Bxd5 Bxd5
>  -+  (-2.07)   Depth: 2/5   00:00:00
>1...Rxd5 2.Bc4 Bc6 3.Bxd5 Bxd5
>  -+  (-2.07)   Depth: 3/10   00:00:00
>
>
>Analysis by Chess Tiger 15.0:
>
>1...Rxd5
>  ²  (0.32)   Depth: 1   00:00:00
>1...Rxd5
>  -+  (-3.04)   Depth: 1   00:00:00
>1...Rxd5
>  µ  (-0.94)   Depth: 1   00:00:00
>1...Rxd5 2.Bc4
>  µ  (-0.94)   Depth: 2   00:00:00
>1...Rxd5 2.Bc4 Bc6 3.Bxd5 Bxd5
>  µ  (-0.94)   Depth: 3   00:00:00
>1...Rxd5 2.Bc4 Bc6 3.Bxd5 Bxd5
>  µ  (-0.94)   Depth: 4   00:00:00
>1...Rxd5 2.Bc4 Bc6 3.Bxd5 Bxd5
>  µ  (-0.94)   Depth: 5   00:00:00  1kN
>1...Rxd5 2.Bc4 Bc6 3.Rh6 Kd7 4.Rh7+ Kd8 5.Bxd5 Bxd5
>  ³  (-0.52)   Depth: 6   00:00:00  2kN
>
>
>                            Albert
>
>>>>
>>>>Rybka does not capture the knight at depth 1 in the first case but capture the
>>>>knight ar depth 1 in the second case.
>>>>
>>>>Can Vasik explain why?
>>>>
>>>>evaluation?
>>>>I do not believe it.
>>>>
>>>>It must be search and rybka search after Rxd5 Bc4 black move and see that in the
>>>>first case no move save black from a loss of full rook when in the second case
>>>>it searches Rxd5 Bc4 Bc6
>>>>
>>>>Uri
>>>Hi all,
>>>
>>>It's clearly seen that Rybka uses some form of selective search different from
>>>others' in the quescence search which is not a full width search, therefore is
>>>not counted in nps. This explains the low nps, Rybka does extra work in the QS
>>>which pays off.
>>>Obvious, that a usual 1 ply search cannot be such better even with a superb
>>>evaluation but a Rybka-type can be.
>>>
>>>Regards,
>>>László
>>
>>No
>>
>>It is not clear
>>
>>I can achieve the same effect by not counting nodes in the qsearch and writing
>>depth x when the real depth is x+2
>>
>>It is possible that rybka does nothing special except playing better when vasik
>>tries to hide what it does by misleading information.
>>
>>Uri
>>Uri



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