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Subject: Re: Hiarcs 10 (Aggressive Hypermodern) - Rybka Beta 9 x64 (Neutral)

Author: Uri Blass

Date: 03:30:54 01/11/06

Go up one level in this thread


On January 11, 2006 at 05:12:34, Vasik Rajlich wrote:

>On January 10, 2006 at 06:40:43, Uri Blass wrote:
>
>>On January 10, 2006 at 04:43:57, Vasik Rajlich wrote:
>>
>>>On January 09, 2006 at 21:41:17, Arnon Yogev wrote:
>>>
>>>>On January 09, 2006 at 19:38:59, robert flesher wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>why not 64 bit providers a huge speed gain from what I have read. Even if its
>>>>>only 30-50 elo that is alot. An extra ply here or there can spell death. I
>>>>>prefer to see testing under fair conditions.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>I don't think that this particular type of hardware advantage can cause such a
>>>>difference in results.
>>>>Do you honstly think that the 32 bit version would score below 50% just because
>>>>of it? hard to believe..
>>>>
>>>>For example, take a look at the latest CEGT results :
>>>>
>>>>Rybka 1.0 Beta 32-bit Vs. Deep Shredder 9 2CPU 512MB
>>>>==
>>>>104 + 50 = 25 - 29
>>>>!
>>>>
>>>>The barely 80 kn/s fish slaughters the double CPU'ed kn/s monster.
>>>>
>>>>Hiarcs versus the same opponent scores + 16 = 15 - 19 which is pretty decent,
>>>>but not slightly close to Rybka's result.
>>>>
>>>>From my personal exeperience I can tell you that while playing online for the
>>>>first time i could pass the 2600+ rank with my antique P4 1.8 playing against
>>>>_much_ faster machines.
>>>>all this thanks to Rybka. before that era I could barely pass the 2450 rate with
>>>>any other engine.. Rybka just brought back all the fun =).
>>>>
>>>>I don't ask Hiarcs to win every match it set against, But I think that we could
>>>>except more from a commercial release .. Surely just to give some more
>>>>competition. (I'm not speaking just about Rybka, so spare the "it was not
>>>>available at the time"..)
>>>>
>>>>AY.
>>>>
>>>>PS if the setting is really better than default, Why on earth it was not
>>>>discovered before the release ? I remember enrico said that they ran more than
>>>>1000 long games for the beta version before the release, so I mean, none of the
>>>>beta-testers could have just think about changing some parameters? that's their
>>>>jobs and why they are betatesters anyway..
>>>
>>>Enrico's explanation is pretty good. I want to add three things:
>>>
>>>1) 60% speedup (as you get going from 32-bit Rybka to 64-bit Rybka) gives around
>>>30 rating points.
>>
>>I think that it is dependent on the time control.
>>
>>http://www.husvankempen.de/nunn/eloblitzall.html
>>
>>I see bigger difference at blitz and I think that there is also a bigger
>>difference for weaker programs than rybka.
>>
>>I guess that the advantage is bigger when the engine does more mistakes.
>>It is also possible that the 30 elo is misleading because it is harder to
>>improve result against weak opponents and the difference is going to be bigger
>>when the opponents becomes stronger.
>>
>>Unfortunately no opponent in the CEGT list is stronger than Rybka and rybka
>>plays only against weaker opponents(it is possible to change the situation by
>>giving the opponents more time and have CEGT rating for things like Fruit2.2*3
>>when you give Fruit2.2 120 minutes against 40 minutes of other opponents) but
>>unfortunately I do not expect it to happen).
>>
>>Uri
>
>Interesting. Indeed, I took a look, and found the following:
>
>Blitz, Rybka 64 bit vs 32 bit: 58 ELO
>40/40, Rybka 64 bit vs 32 bit: 31 ELO
>Blitz, Shredder 9 2 CPU vs Shredder 9 1 CPU: 61 ELO
>40/40, Shredder 9 2 CPU vs Shredder 9 1 CPU: 51 ELO
>
>The number which is out of line with the others is the first one, not sure why
>it's so high.
>
>Also, some small evidence overall for diminishing returns.
>
>Vas

If you take weaker programs you can find bigger improvements from 64 bits 2 cpu.
Not enough games were played but it seems to be 100-200 elo improvement from the
combination of 2 cpu and 64 bits.

I am not sure if it is diminishing returns or that the difference for programs
in the top of the list is underrated.

14 Zappa 1.1 64-bit 2CPU 512MB 2754
94 Zappa 1.1 2607

30 Deep Sjeng 1.6 2CPU 512MB 2708
92 Deep Sjeng 1.6 1CPU 2608

26 Crafty Cito 1.4.2 64/bit 2CPU 2715
134 Crafty Cito 1.2-1.4.1 2533(best Crafty 1 cpu)
146 Crafty Cito 1.4.2 2514 (not enough games but I guess no big difference to
1.2-1.4.1)

Uri



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