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Subject: Re: rybka vs hydra

Author: Uri Blass

Date: 22:09:38 02/01/06

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On February 01, 2006 at 19:06:44, Bryan Hofmann wrote:

>On February 01, 2006 at 02:17:40, Uri Blass wrote:
>
>>On February 01, 2006 at 01:50:23, Ryan B. wrote:
>>
>>>On January 31, 2006 at 23:07:08, walt irvin wrote:
>>>
>>>>in a rybka vs hydra match ,,,with rybka using a athlon 3800 12 game match 40
>>>>moves in 2 hours what is the predicted score ???????????
>>>>
>>>>mine is hydra 9/3
>>>>
>>>>walter
>>>
>>>I think your prediction is very good.  What I think many people fail to realize
>>>about Hydra is that it is a dedicated chess machine so it does not suffer the
>>>same overheads that PC chess engines have.  Also Software optimized for just one
>>>exact platform can be very fast compared to traditional PC programs.
>>>
>>>Ryan
>>
>>I do not agree.
>>
>>By that logic Crafty with 8 processors can also beat Rybka with one processor
>>but it is probably not the case.
>>
>>The fact that hardware that is dedicated for one task has a potential advantage
>>does not prove that hydra is better.
>>
>>The facts are that Rybka is leading the CEGT list even if you consider only 32
>>bits and not one of the better hardware participants.
>>
>>This is from the CEGT rating list.
>>
>>2 Rybka 1.01 Beta 13-13b 32-bit 2886 45 45 189 74.1 % 2704 28.6 %
>>6 Deep Shredder 9.12 x64 2CPU 2822 35 34 283 64.7 % 2717 31.1 %
>>
>>14 Shredder 9 2754 8 8 4776 63.3 % 2660 31.8 %
>>34 Crafty Cito 1.4.2 64-bit 2CPU 2695 59 58 106 63.7 % 2598 27.4 %
>>
>>As you can see even the combination of 64 bits and 2 cpu does not help when you
>>have inferior program.
>>
>>If 64 bits+2 cpu gives does the program 3 times faster then you have:
>
>Not 3x, the 32bit vs 64 bit with the above program under windows gives your 27%
>increase.

In Rybka it is more than 60% and I thought that it is similiar with Crafty
because Crafty is a bitboard program.

Your point is correct for shredder that was only 20% faster in the 64 bit
version but on the other hand I believe that shredder has some software
improvement and shredder9.12 is better than shredder9.

 Running Crafty on a dual vs a single gives you about an 80% increase
>(have not tested but seen results posted of a 1.8/1.9). this would mean about a
>2.1.
>
>What is interesting is that if you compare the 32 bit version that was run in
>the CEGT vs the dual version you see that there is an increase of 160+ ELO.
>While the 2 CPU version has not run as many games as the single it sort of shows
>the 2x speed up is worth more then the 50 ELO points I have seen posted here
>before.

Only in CEGT conditions.
I suspect that using books reduce the advantage of 2 cpu in rating points.

I also think that testing in unequal time control is needed to know the
advantage from speed because we do not know the effective advantage of having 2
cpu.

In thoery it can be also equivalent to more than 2 times advantage(espacally
when the deep version get 512 mbytes hash against 256 mbytes of the single cpu).

Uri



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