Author: Rolf Tueschen
Date: 06:39:13 02/17/06
Go up one level in this thread
On February 17, 2006 at 09:10:04, Albert Silver wrote: >On February 17, 2006 at 06:53:10, Rolf Tueschen wrote: > >>On February 17, 2006 at 06:27:34, Chrilly Donninger wrote: >> >>>On February 17, 2006 at 04:17:38, Vasik Rajlich wrote: >>> >>>>On February 17, 2006 at 02:33:32, Jouni Uski wrote: >>>> >>>>>Is it possible to disassemble exe-file, which is zipped and/or copy protected >>>>>like Fruit 2.2.1? Where are disassemblers downloadable? >>>>> >>>>>thanks >>>>> >>>>>Jouni >>>> >>>>IDA Pro is easily the best. >>>Yes. IDA-Pro makes it a lot easier. One of the view pieces of Software I really >>>admire. >>> >>>> >>>>Just a general comment though: it is _extremely_ hard to figure out the >>>>innovations in a program. Basically, I would say that in practice it is >>>>impossible. Yes, you can locate the move generator, because you already know >>>>what that looks like and what it does. But understanding the evaluation terms, >>>>or adjustments to search depth, would require an ungodly effort, especially for >>>>a complex program. Let me put it like this: every aspiring computer chess >>>>programmer has been very strongly tempted to try his hand at disassembling. >>> >>>When I started computer chess in 1989 I did just a look at the GNU-Chess Code. >>>It came never in my mind to dissassemble another programm. I think today one >>>should study the Code of Fruit and Crafty. And should then make something else. >>>Doing Dissassembling as a beginner is completly pointless. The only chance to >>>get some usefull information from disassembling is when one knows what to look >>>for. One can only - with a reasonable amount of effort - disassembly a small >>>programm (e.g. a virus). >>> >>>Stefan Meyer-Kahlen once remarked to me "There are a lot of people around which >>>dissassemble Shredder". I felt a little bit stupid that I have thought before >>>that this is impossible and that I had no idea how to do it. So I bought IDA-Pro >>>and learned it. Just to prove, that I am a real programmer. >>> >>>From my experience it is relative straightforward to get a good picture of the >>>search. Not all the details, some flags/conditions why a given search is >>>done/not done are difficult to identify, but one gets the principial idea >>>behind. For Rybka I needed 2 days to get this overall picture. >>>Dissecting the whole programm is much too cumbersome. One gets crazy from this >>>extremly tedious work. >>> >>>I think, it does not pay off. For me it is just an intellectual challenge. E.g. >>>its nice to spot the Mate-Bug in Rybka. But it does not improve at all one ones >>>programm. >>>Even if one knows the search algorithm, one can not directly use it. The parts >>>have to fit together. There is a close relation between the evaluation, the >>>playing style and the search. As a special case the Hydra architecture which its >>>seperation of the FPGA- and PC-search puts additional restrictions. Additionally >>>some tricks which work on a single-processor are a desaster for a parallel >>>program. >>>I think doing engine matches and improving the weak spots of the own programm is >>>the only productive way. Disassembling is just to have some fun between these >>>boring engine-matches. >>> >>>Chrilly >> >> >>What would happen if you would use Rybka in your hardware, so that you get a >>multi-ping-pong effect just like in 'Advanced Chess'. Would that increase your >>Elo performance? And - could that be detected by Marshal vom Herigk? Let's make >>CC a bit more spicy. > > >I think he pretty much said that even if he wanted to put Rybka code into Hydra, >he could not as Hydra is too different and incompatible. because of the >combination hardware/software, and even because it is designed for single >processor instead of multi-processor. > > Albert I meant something along the line of letting Rybka do its job in one processor hardware-like and then work the results into his own Hydra evaluations... JUst like I always assumed that SMK had sort of actual opponent mirror in his program that helped his Shredder to consider what could be planned from the other side.
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