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Subject: Re: Mathematical wow!!!

Author: James Robertson

Date: 18:33:01 05/21/99

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On May 21, 1999 at 01:26:16, J. Wesley Cleveland wrote:

>On May 20, 1999 at 23:41:03, Timothy J. Frohlick wrote:
>
>>On May 20, 1999 at 15:24:36, Dann Corbit wrote:
>>
>>>On May 20, 1999 at 14:13:34, Dann Corbit wrote:
>>>[snip]
>>>>>The thread about representing positions in the minimum number of bits is also
>>>>>about setting an upper bound on the maximum number of chess positions. 160 bits
>>>>>is 2^160 or  ~= 10^48.
>>>>Yes, what a fascinating rejoinder!  In this case, if 10^52 is correct, then 173
>>>>bits should be the minimum, since 2^173 = 1.197e52
>>>>If we can encode in less, then the number of board positions is less than we
>>>>thought (or we have an error in our thinking and the scheme won't work).
>>>Which brings up another fascinating idea.  If we can come up with a minimal
>>>encoding, we can bound the maximum possible number of chess positions.  If the
>>>claim that all positions can be encoded in 100 bits is true, then there are
>>>"only" about 1e30 board positions!!  Several orders of magnitude below any limit
>>>claimed that I know of.  After all, if the mapping really is invertible, we will
>>>have a one to one and onto map from a 100 bit binary number to all possible
>>>board positions!
>>
>>
>>1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 board positions.  There are
>>31,536,000,000 seconds in a millenium.  That is 31,709,791,983,760,000,000
>>positions per second.  I think that we'll find Martians before that happens.
>
>With alpha-beta, we may need to look at about the square root of that number or
>10^15 poaitions. At the 200,000,000 positions/second claimed for Deep Blue, it
>would take only about 2 months. I think, though, that 10^40 is closer to the
>true number of positions, which would take a couple millenia.

You are confusing "search" and "position". Alpha-beta is applicable only in a
search, in which there are truly more possibilities than atoms in the galaxy. A
position is an arrangement of pieces that must be searched. :)

James





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