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Subject: Re: Fritz losing to Shredder

Author: Fernando Villegas

Date: 09:25:14 06/19/99

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On June 19, 1999 at 00:34:28, Robert Hyatt wrote:

>On June 18, 1999 at 08:19:14, Dan Homan wrote:
>
>>On June 17, 1999 at 22:08:24, Fernando Villegas wrote:
>>
>>>Hi Dan:
>>>You are right, of course, but there is a practical point regarding the nature of
>>>a test that must be taken into account; his meaning in terms of human
>>>usefulness. The example of you race is good precisely to show that: the
>>>experiment would be right as a test of the fastest vehicle on wheels, but
>>>meaningless, preposterous and something to laugh at. Experiments must be not
>>>only logical, but to have a sense. You, as a scientis, know that very well; you
>>>prepare an experiment not just because it can be done in his own terms, but to
>>>probe something that is important for human purposes, theoretic or practical.
>>>Then, when people talks of the sense of this tournament where programs are
>>>running in monster kind of hardware, what probably they try to say is that the
>>>experiment, even if logical, is not meaningful for his necesities and in fact
>>>for almost 99% of people that uses chess programs. What is meaningful for us is
>>>what has a relation with our practice. Monsters running at 800 Mhz or so are not
>>>reachable for common folk and so the test is meaningless in that specific but
>>>very important aspect. Logic is not all and becomes  ridiculous without a dosis
>>>of common sense. Fact is that we are not going to conclude nothing of the
>>>results of this tournaments not only because the few rounds, but because the
>>>brute force being used into it.
>>>Cheers
>>>fernando
>>
>>Yes, once one understands the question to be answered by an experiment,
>>they are free to think that the question itself is a silly one and the
>>experiment should never have been done.
>>
>>If people think that having a competition to find the best artifical
>>chess player is a silly thing to do, that is fine with me.  I don't think
>>anyone has ever claimed that we can use these results to help us do
>>anyting useful.....     In this case it is purely for fun!
>>
>>Of course, I suppose that no chess tournament is useful in a practical
>>sense.... they are all for entertainment.
>>
>> - Dan
>>
>>P.S.  I know that one of Melvin's concerns is that the results of
>>this tournament will be mis-used by the winners, but mis-use of the
>>results of the competition will not be the fault of the competition
>>itself.  The results of any test can be mis-used.  Hopefully the winners
>>will also advertise the hardware they ran on to get the title....  it
>>might even be a smart advertising strategy if they are a 1 or 4 processor
>>machine that beats some of the 100+ processor monsters.
>
>
>I don't understand the issue.  The WMCCC is a fairly uniform platform event
>every year, with only one cpu per program, and it must be a commercially-
>available processor at a commercially-available clock speed. The WCCC has
>_never_ been about answering that question.  It has simply asked "what is the
>strongest chess automaton on the planet?"  Without the "on equal hardware"
>stipulation inserted...

Bob:
The issue, from my side, has never been to blame of anything the actual tourn.
It is or was just a discusion about the nature of experiments after a post by a
guy here. Respect to avalability of current hardware used, that it is a matter
of definition. Available in the sense you can purchase it in a shop, yes;
availability in the sense common folk can go and purchase THESE DAYS and just
like that a 600 Mhz, I am not so sure. But no matter, the tourn was OK and funny
to see. Pity your program was not there, but I have already read your reasons.
Hope next time.
Fernando



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