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Subject: Re: Fictitious Harvard Cup 1999 : Would CSTAL belong?

Author: pete

Date: 14:31:39 06/25/99

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On June 25, 1999 at 15:39:39, Will Singleton wrote:

>
>On June 25, 1999 at 15:20:30, greg moller wrote:
>
>>On June 25, 1999 at 13:50:16, Will Singleton wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>On June 25, 1999 at 13:09:04, Lawrence S. Tamarkin wrote:
>>>
>>>>I thought a fictitious Harvard Cup would involve picking which humans &
>>>>computer's would be in it, basing it on the setup that was traditionally used in
>>>>past Harvard cup events.
>>>>
>>>>My picks would be,
>>>>
>>>>Human's:                             Playing programs:
>>>>
>>>>1. Benjamin                          1.Shredder (of course)
>>>>
>>>>2. Rohde                             2.Fritz5
>>>>
>>>>3. Christiansen                      3.Hiarcs7.32
>>>>
>>>>4. Yermolinsky                       4.Nimzo99 (or 2000)
>>>>
>>>>5. Fedorowicz                        5.CM6000 (of of course)
>>>>
>>>>6. Gulko                             6.CS Tal II for Windows (A real wild card)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>mrslug - the chess software addict!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>Re your choice of CSTal, my results indicate it's about as strong as my program,
>>>perhaps a bit stronger.  This is from ICC blitz play.  What indication do you
>>>have that it belongs anywhere near the top programs?
>>>
>>>Will
>>
>>In Thorsten's _slow_ tournaments Cstal has shown relative strength comparable to
>>all the top programs. Of course, due to its provocative style there's no reason
>>to think it won't do even better against humans.
>>
>>ICC blitz play is a poor indicator OTOH, IMO. :)
>>
>>regards,
>>gm
>
>Probably.  But then, how do you explain the fact that of the 4 CStal accounts on
>ICC (that I know about), none of them has a high standard score?  All of their
>scores are less than their blitz scores, way less than top rated computers, and
>either about the same as mine or less?  (talmoves, master-tal, redbear, cstalx)
>
>Would also be nice to see the results of some independent testing, perhaps Shep
>is doing so?
>
>Will

I think there are several reasons :

1. All Tal-accounts seemed to play nearly everybody and maybe except talmoves
never seemed to go for rating points by challenging the popular "chessprog
victims " or put a " no computer " which can give you the hell of a rating :)

2. It seems that in the sessions where a strong human master played tal for
several games ( IM or GM ) , it was easier for the human  to adapt to tal style
than to other progs's style IMHO

3. It is _very_ difficult to find strong opponents for standard games . Most
good players seem to prefer blitz.

4. In standard games against other chessprogs tal played quite well . I think it
gets 30-40 % against the major crafties although there is a significant hardware
advantage.

5. Your prog is not _that_ bad and a thrilling opponent to most computer
accounts :)

Tal plays quite good at really slow time controls ; the speculative functions
bring about interesting moves ; some are good and some are bad ; if it gets
enough time it usually manages to search out the better ones . But who would
play a 2h/40 match over Internet ? I watched several games : sometimes it
outplays great human or computer players like a "supermonster" , sometimes it
plays like a beginner , you never know :)


Pete



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