Computer Chess Club Archives


Search

Terms

Messages

Subject: Re: Forced moves

Author: Herman Hesse

Date: 14:20:24 07/30/99

Go up one level in this thread


On July 30, 1999 at 08:56:56, Robert Hyatt wrote:

>On July 30, 1999 at 05:09:08, Herman Hesse wrote:
>
>>On July 30, 1999 at 02:36:56, Bruce Moreland wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>On July 30, 1999 at 00:28:06, Ed Schröder wrote:
>>>
>>>>Search the first iteration without alpha/beta.
>>>>
>>>>Ed Schroder
>>>
>>>This would hurt your "game in one second" performance :-)
>>>
>>>bruce
>>
>>He told you all once. When Rebel was released able to give senseful 4-move lines
>>for the first four moves. Four moves sorted into order. Only way was first
>>iteration(s) without alpha-beta. No person ever commented.
>>
>>Now he told you twice. Only comment is a weak joke.
>>
>>Your forum stultifies when on-topic reigns. The off-topicals were the ones that
>>saw and said so. Only dullness remains. Mr Schroder is sad about this. Possibly
>>why he drops ideas in, hoping for souls to respond.
>>
>>Low iterations without alpha-beta lead to more senseful move ordering from hash
>>when the PV is going to change in later iterations. This can save time. All
>>spelt out so even the slow ones can see.
>>
>>Herman
>
>
>Sorry, but this is _dead_ wrong.  Otherwise we would just do the 'low iterations
>without alpha/beta' and then play the best move.  Check out Rebel on any test
>suite.  I'll bet you find it changing to the _right_ move at extreme depths and
>not at depth 1 or 2 or 3.
>
>Doing a 1/2 ply search without alpha/beta can help a bit with ordering the root
>moves, but _only_ a bit.  Because all you learn is which moves seem to be best
>for 1-2 ply searches. (no, you won't do 3-4-5 ply searches at the root without
>alpha/beta and finish them in reasonable time).  However, what is best at 2
>plies has _nothing_ to do with what is best at 10, 11 or 12 plies...
>
>This is an _old_ idea.  Ken Thompson did a 2 ply search without alpha/beta in
>Belle to order the ply-1 move list.  I used his idea in Cray Blitz (I had the
>ability to use a 'true-value' search at the root by resetting alpha/beta to
>+/- infinity for each root move to get a score for each, useful for debugging
>and other things).  It isn't 'new'.  It isn't particularly 'great'.  And it
>absolutely does _not_ let you see that all moves but one lead to mate.  Because
>they all (but one) might lead to a mate in 10, and you won't see that with a
>1-2-3 ply search, generally.

I amde a good, on-topic chess post here.  It was with ideas. Mr Moreland said he
deleted it. This was a nonsense deletion. Mr Moreland should justify or restore.
I am quite sure Bob Hyatt can take care of himself.

Herman



This page took 0 seconds to execute

Last modified: Thu, 15 Apr 21 08:11:13 -0700

Current Computer Chess Club Forums at Talkchess. This site by Sean Mintz.