Author: Terry Ripple
Date: 00:40:36 08/03/99
Go up one level in this thread
On August 02, 1999 at 21:32:56, Victor Valenzia wrote: >On August 02, 1999 at 18:53:54, Mark Young wrote: > >>On August 02, 1999 at 18:36:07, Chris Taylor wrote: >> >>>I have started a match between Hiarcs 7.32 and Doctor? 3.0 >>>Doc is running on an amd 400 with 32 meg ram, and using General.ctg >>>Hiarcs is on an amd 350 with 64 meg of ram. Using its own book! >>>The time is 40 mins each for the whole game, resign set to early >>> >>>Just like the result Tania got Hiarcs is 5 up, and the Match, is still on? >>>If anyone has the slightest interest, tommorow, i will stop the match, and post >>>the results? >>> >>>Chris Taylor >>>England >> >>With all due respect to Bob Hyatt, having an opinion on something is one thing, >>and having data on something is another. It is Bob opinion that under the >>Chessbase interface engine vs engine testing with one computer will result in >>flawed data. Having done both and looking at the data generated by both, I have >>found both methods when using the chessbase engines give pretty much the same >>results with a acceptable +/- for the amount of games played. I can find nothing >>wrong in engine vs engine testing from the data I have generated. I think when >>your match is done, it will pretty much agree with Tania's one computer engine >>vs engine results. > >There is one huge difference in playing on two computers, that being the ponder >mode, or thinking on the opponent's time. This can be especially significant in >matches with long time controls. For instance, in my Hiarcs vs. Fritz matches >on two machines, the programs will often respond instantly (0 seconds) if they >have predicted the opponent's move. In engine vs. engine matches, they start >from scratch on every move. Correctly predicting the opponent's moves can save >huge amounts of time that can be allocated to more difficult positions. In my >opinion, this is more accurate. > >Imagine if you will, two human chess players with alzheimer's disease. After >one of them makes a move, he is forced to leave the board, then the other human >with alzheimer's comes to the board to make his move. This is repeated until >the conclusion of the game. In essence, each player is making a cold analysis >of a position each time he steps up to the board. Compare this with two >mentally healthy chess players sitting at the board, each one calculating >counter-attacks during his opponent's move. I think that this is a fair analogy >of engine vs. engine matches and matches played on two machines. ---------- Hi Victor, Your Anology is interesting but lets face the facts that both programs have the same "handicap" and the only difference it`s going to make is that the quality of the games could be a little more in depth in some games played with pondering on and other games it won`t make much difference, but in any case it`s still a fair game as long as the handicap is affecting both programs in the match. Now as far as Crafty, Bob claims it affects his program so in this case more investigating is called for and that means lots of games. It would be an interesting experiment to log all the games between programs playing matches on one machine vrs. the same programs playing matches with two machines. Time controls should probaly be the same or close to do this and compare results! It was stated on here that Crafty gets in time pressure late in it`s games from the use of single computer matches because it screws up it`s time allotment some how, but i found that it has did quite well against Hiarcs7.32 in this department and was better than Hiarcs in its time, later in the game in many cases. Where i found Crafty not doing very well was when i used the so called fisher setting with an extra 10 seconds a move and then it was terrible with it`s time allotment. So, this leads me to agree with Mark as i ran plenty of games on a single computer and found similar results. So until the world is in,i feel that it is only fair to the other progammers and their programs to atleast state how the match was run. Best regards, Terry --------------
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