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Subject: Re: CST time control violation (was: Re: 99 Summer update....)

Author: Robert Hyatt

Date: 20:48:19 08/19/99

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On August 19, 1999 at 22:42:05, Thorsten Czub wrote:

>On August 19, 1999 at 21:27:50, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>
>>Name one GM player that would play another GM in a real game, and not call
>>"flag" when the flag falls.  This isn't a 'sportsmanship' issue.  Because
>>'sportsmanship' has _nothing_ to do with violating specific rules and letting
>>that pass...
>
>we have a different point of view of
>sportsmanship and fairness and "violating specific rules" whatever this
>sentence means.
>i have seen ed playing against a polgar sister. i do not remember
>it accurate, but i guess rebel was better and polgar had
>less time and he offered a draw.
>i have seen this behaviour also somewhere else.


This is not the same issue.  Crafty offers draws in drawn positions, even if
its opponent (IM/GM) is low on time.  I don't do this for 'sportsmanship'
reasons, I do it so that the IM/GM will come back and play again.  However,
those same players will flag crafty within a millisecond of it going over a
time limit...  and they should, as it will flag them if _they_ lose on time
as well.

Nothing wrong with offering a draw rather than trying to run your opponent out
of time... but you won't find many players (and no GM/IM players that I have
ever seen) on ICC that will ignore a flag falling unless the game is unrated.



>maybe i see chess more like kortschnoi does: more like an art than like
>the way YOU define sports. for me winning is not the important thing.
>for me the game is the important thing.

Do a database search on Korchnoi.  I found _many_ games where he won on
time in my opening database.  He isn't the 'sportsman' at all if that is
your definition.  :)  And in a couple of those games he was clearly losing
as well..





>i am watching soccer not to see somebody win but to see 90 minutes
>interesting match. even better if it is a fair match.
>we have a different point of view. i think they are not compatible.
>hm.


yes, but what happens when the timer hits zero?



>what do you think is the reason chris and i (also my friend uli)
>has this point of view and you and others have your point of view ?
>any ideas ?


maybe _we_ play chess?  And the game has rules, and the clock is included?
And when the flag falls, the flag falls.  Again, show me a _real_ game using
a clock where the flag falling didn't end the game.  Any game in real FIDE
or whatever play, except for those where the flag falling doesn't result in a
loss because the person claiming the flag didn't have a complete game score
and couldn't prove the flag fell before the requisite number of moves were made.

The purpose of a computer playing chess is to "play chess".  And since the
rules of the game include the clock, why try to hand-wave sloppy programming
into 'sportsmanship'?  There is _no_ valid reason for overstepping a clock
time limit by a computer.  It just isn't reasonable...  and no amount of
justification will make it become reasonable.

and this has nothing to do with 'beans'...  just 'brains'...



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