Author: Robert Hyatt
Date: 10:12:35 09/10/99
Go up one level in this thread
On September 10, 1999 at 11:40:40, Ed Schröder wrote: >On September 10, 1999 at 08:01:35, Alessandro Damiani wrote: > >>On September 10, 1999 at 07:48:44, Ed Schröder wrote: >> >>>On September 10, 1999 at 00:19:37, Robert Hyatt wrote: >>> >>>>Here is an interesting position given to me by Steffen Jakob: >>>> >>>> /p/P5p/7p/7P/4kpK/// w >>>> >>>> +---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+ >>>> 8 | | | | | | | | | >>>> +---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+ >>>> 7 | *P| | | | | | | | >>>> +---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+ >>>> 6 | P | | | | | | *P| | >>>> +---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+ >>>> 5 | | | | | | | | *P| >>>> +---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+ >>>> 4 | | | | | | | | P | >>>> +---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+ >>>> 3 | | | | | *K| *P| K | | >>>> +---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+ >>>> 2 | | | | | | | | | >>>> +---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+ >>>> 1 | | | | | | | | | >>>> +---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+ >>>> a b c d e f g h >>>> >>>> >>>>Obviously black is getting crushed. He has one move, Kh3, which leads to a >>>>mate in 6. Steffen asked me to try this and Crafty found a mate in 4, which >>>>doesn't exist. I spent the entire day debugging this thing and here is what >>>>I found: >>>> >>>>If you recall the discussion here a couple of weeks ago, I reported that I store >>>>absolute mate scores (EXACT scores) in the hash table, and that I adjust them >>>>so that they are always stored as "mate in N from the current position". This >>>>has always worked flawlessly for me, and still does. >>>> >>>>For bounds, I once tried adjusting the bounds as well, but found quirks, and >>>>left them alone. Wrong answer. To fix this mate in 4 problem, I decided to >>>>adjust the bounds as well, but I now set any bound value that is larger than >>>>MATE-300, by reducing it to exactly MATE-300, but still using the "LOWER" >>>>flag to say that this is the lowest value this position could have. For bound >>>>values < -MATE+300, I set them to exactly -MATE+300 and leave the flag as is. >>>> >>>>This position is cute. Because not only is it a mate in 6, but there are >>>>transpositions that lead to mate in 7, mate in 8, and there are shorter (but >>>>non-forced) mates in 4 and 5. And there are stalemates, and positions with >>>>1 legal move, and so forth. >>>> >>>>You ought to find the following variation as one mate in 6: >>>> >>>>Kh3, f2, Kg2, Ke2, Kg3, f1=Q, Kh2, g5, hg, Kf3, g6, Qg2# >>>> >>>>If you find a shorter mate, it is wrong. If you find a longer mate, you >>>>are probably just extending like mad on checks (crafty finds a mate in 8 at >>>>shallow depths (9 plies, 2 secs on my PII/300 notebook), and doesn't find the >>>>mate in 6 until depth 10, 3 seconds. >>>> >>>>It is a good test as the transpositions are real cute with white's king caught >>>>in a tiny box, but with several different moves that triangulate and transpose >>>>into other variations... >>>> >>>>If you get it right, you have either handled the bounds right, or else you are >>>>very lucky. IE Crafty 16.17 gets this dead right. But if I disable the eval, >>>>it goes bananas, yet the eval is not important when mate is possible. >>>> >>>>Have fun... >>>> >>>>I did... :) >>> >>>A simple solution: do not store a position in the hash table if there is >>>no best-move. It solves the mate-cases and also repetition cases. Also >>>there is no speed loss of the search. >>> >>>Ed >> >>Do you mean by "no best-move" >> bestmove == 0 >>or >> best<=alpha, after having searched all moves (best: minimax score)? >> >>What I do: >> if bestmove == 0 then don't store anything, just return the score (mate or >> stalemate). >> >>Alessandro > >- For each new ply in the search: bound=-INF; bestmove=0; >- For each move on that ply: if (score > bound) { bound=score; bestmove=move; } >- For hashing: if (bestmove==0) do_not_update_hash_table > >Ed I still don't follow your idea. Because at 'fail low' (also called "ALL" nodes in Knuth/Moore) nodes the test above will _always_ be true. But what do you do if _every_ move returns a score > -infinity, but < alpha, and this score is the same for all moves? If you store a random move in the hash table, you totally wreck your move ordering, because you will try a random move _before_ you try the winning captures, and that can kill efficiency. What do I not understand about your idea? IE you aren't using PVS/negascout/aspiration search???
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