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Subject: Re: Interesting mate test for hashing

Author: Ed Schröder

Date: 15:07:42 09/11/99

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On September 11, 1999 at 17:54:55, Alessandro Damiani wrote:

>On September 11, 1999 at 15:56:10, Ed Schröder wrote:
>
>>On September 11, 1999 at 15:42:03, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>
>>>On September 11, 1999 at 11:42:29, Ed Schröder wrote:
>>>
>>>>>Posted by Robert Hyatt on September 11, 1999 at 10:19:19:
>>>>>
>>>>>In Reply to: Re: Interesting mate test for hashing posted by Ed Schröder on
>>>>>September 11, 1999 at 01:43:12:
>>>>>
>>>>>On September 11, 1999 at 01:43:12, Ed Schröder wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Do not underestimate the idea that in case there is no bestmove from the
>>>>>>hash table you do a full static evaluation of all nodes first and based
>>>>>>on that you pick the bestmove as being the first move you are going to
>>>>>>search for this (new) depth. The very early Rebel's (1981) worked that
>>>>>>way and I remember (although the system is very time consuming) it was
>>>>>>superior to all other systems I tried.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>I'm not underestimating it.  I was simply saying that this approach can
>>>>>be applied when the position is encountered and there is no 'best move'
>>>>>in the hash table.  Rather than doing it when the hash entry is stored,
>>>>>and we are not even sure that this hash entry will ever be used again or
>>>>>that it won't be overwritten before it is needed.
>>>>
>>>>Right.
>>>>
>>>>>>I later removed the system because hash tables + bestmove was more powerful
>>>>>>at least for Rebel. But I wouldn't exclude the possibility such a system
>>>>>>can have a positive effect on the speed of the search.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Actually I didn't remove the system but I replaced it with a faster one
>>>>>>that is:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>- generate all legal moves;
>>>>>>- for all moves do a (very) quick evaluation;
>>>>>>- sort all moves based on the quick evaluation.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>This (move ordering) system (for Rebel) is still superior.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Ed
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Do you use killers, history, etc?
>>>>
>>>>Just the normal stuff.
>>>>
>>>>Order...
>>>>
>>>>- hash table move
>>>>- winning captures (ordered by expected material gain)
>>>>- promotion
>>>>- equal captures (QxQ etc)
>>>>- killers (4 of them)
>>>>- remaining moves ordered by the intelligent move generator
>>>>
>>>>The Killer History from Jonathan Schaefer gave no improvement for me.
>>>>
>>>>Ed
>>>
>>>
>>>It probably won't help if you keep 4 killers.  I didn't find any improvement
>>>in Cray Blitz either... but I did even more with killers.  I tried the current
>>>ply killers then the killers from _other_ plies if they were legal... adding
>>>history did nothing for me...  I probably ought to re-check Crafty again as it
>>>might be extra overhead for nothing now...
>>
>>I use 2 killers from the current ply (that's the normal way) and the 2 from
>>2 plies back. The latter gave me 5%.
>>
>>Ed
>
>I am surprised: history doesn't help? I think that the static ordering is good
>enough then. Perhaps history is good for those with a bad static ordering, like
>me?

That is always the problem with move-ordering ideas as the current way you
are doing things is already so good the idea (although good) doesn't work.
I try every new idea, you never know.

Ed


>Alessandro



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